subshakerz
International Coach
Sachin never faced the 2Ws in their prime sadly
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Viv Richards vs Sachin Tendulkar
- Thread starter Chrish
- Start date
Viv Richards: How did he perform against the West Indian quicks?
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Johan
State Regular
“He destroyed a lot of bowlers in the Caribbean. He didn’t have to play against four West Indies bowlers at once but he played against us [domestically] and he got runs against each team,” said Holding.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm of the opinion Richards was the batting Wasim. Undeniably a legendary player and absolutely spectacular, but not quite as effective as other less flashy players. I'd have no hesitation taking Tendulkar over him.
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trundler
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It's not really fair though, is it? Tendulkar faced better quality attacks that were also backed up by better spinners. Viv didn't have to face the reason why batting was harder in his era. NZ had Hadlee + jobbers. Australia had a bunch of guys who were good but no one who really stood out. Pakistan had Imran + a raw Wasim. Compare this to Donald, Pollock and Fanie or some other generally decent third seamer for SA or Australia with McWarne + Gillespie/Reiffel/Bichel. He didn't play Pakistan and WI a whole lot but those attacks were pretty good too. Plus Tendulkar got centuries at a much better rate.
subshakerz
International Coach
Based on what though? His record is very well rounded and he scored at an incredible SR.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Are we going to have to have a discussion about averages again? And I'm not a strike rate fetishist, with ball or bat.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Everyone who's ever played cricket knows facing a gun bowler is much harder if they're part of a good overall attack than if you can identify them as the only real threat. It's not even just about 'seeing them off', it's about building/releasing pressure.
Scoring runs against Holding in an otherwise domestic-level attack is totally different to scoring runs against him in the context of an entire attack full of similar quality bowlers.
Viv was definitely better than his career average suggests given how long his career was and how it tapered off past the point where most batsmen's careers are over, but he was a little bit lucky not to have to face his own bowlers in Tests for sure.
Scoring runs against Holding in an otherwise domestic-level attack is totally different to scoring runs against him in the context of an entire attack full of similar quality bowlers.
Viv was definitely better than his career average suggests given how long his career was and how it tapered off past the point where most batsmen's careers are over, but he was a little bit lucky not to have to face his own bowlers in Tests for sure.
Johan
State Regular
I don't question that Viv was lucky to not face something as potent as the Windies Pace Quaret , but Sachin never faced an attack on par with the Quaret either , and considering Sachin averages 39 when Shaun Pollock and him played together , 32 against wasim , 32 against Donald e.t.c. I won't assume he would fare much better against the pace quaret in international cricket then Viv did in domestic.
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Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't buy this argument in this particular comparison, because Tendulkar went past that point too, and he started prematurely.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah I was just talking in general. Tendulkar is better than his career average in most comparisons too for the same reason.
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trundler
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Sure he did. SA 2010. McGrath, Gillespie, Warne and Lee.
West Indies very rarely played 4 guns. It must've happened fewer than a dozen times because of injuries and different guys being at different phases in their careers. Baptiste, Harper, Patterson etc played quite a few tests. You're comparing a platonic ideal to what actually happened.
trundler
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Benaud rated Tendulkar a level better than the likes of Greg Chappell before he turned 32. Bradman picked him in his all time XI in the '90s. Then he went on to have a second peak a decade later. Madness.
Johan
State Regular
alright so what are his stats in the matches where that entire Quaret played? or atleast the three pacers at once as the entire argument is on who played pace better?
and I am assuming you're talking about the south africa tour of india in 2010?
Edit - Yup , Sachin never faced that four man aussie attack , When McGrath played he averaged 36 when Mcgrath played alone
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ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
As I said in another thread, you could just say he averaged only 50.23 to make your point. It's obvious based on that the average that in select periods he will fall to near 45 (and also correspondingly rise to near 55 in other periods of similar lengths).
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anil1405
International Captain
If half cooked numbers is what you want to look at then here is the other angle to it.
If he averages 46+ in matches involving Imran and 50+ with a young Wasim Akram, his overall average against Pak is just short of 42. Performed below par against not so good Pakistan bowlers then?
If he averages 48+ against Lillee then his overall average against Aus is 44.
Overall average against NZ is 43.
He has been monstrous against Eng but let's not pretend Willis and Botham were same level as other pacers of their generation.
Basically Viv only averaged 50 or more against India and England while he didn't even touch 45 against other nations.
trundler
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Sorry I meant 2011 when he faced peak Steyn and Morkel at home. Cbf digging stats but it is just not true to say Tendulkar never faced an attack as good as West Indies in the '80s.
Viv was too cool to score against lesser bowlers. His swagger only shone against the best.
/s