*Official* New Zealand in West Indies, AUG 10 to 21, 2022

[thundaboult]

Southee needed to do a stokes/broad/anderson way back in like 2017 and call it time on ODI's.

 

[TheBrand]

Mitchell at 5 instead of Latham? Conway to keep?

Just think they'll look at Phillips more for 2023 WC due to his spin options and can bat at 5/6/7. Where as Bracewell more a backup for Santner at 8 I imagine.

 

[Prince EWS]

Mitchell at 5 instead of Latham? Conway to keep?

Just think they'll look at Phillips more for 2023 WC due to his spin options and can bat at 5/6/7. Where as Bracewell more a backup for Santner at 8 I imagine.

I think Conway will probably open and Allen won't play. Allen in T20s makes a lot more sense than Allen in ODIs and he's not even in the former.

Guptill should've been tapped on the shoulder after the last WC though really.

 

[Zinzan]

Mitchell at 5 instead of Latham? Conway to keep?

Just think they'll look at Phillips more for 2023 WC due to his spin options and can bat at 5/6/7. Where as Bracewell more a backup for Santner at 8 I imagine.

Re- post from the Blackcaps thread...

Disappointed with the batting performance from NZ in the Last T20 after batting well in the 1st couple of games & yet another sub 100 SR from Williamson following his horrid IPL form.

Not sure we can continue carrying Williamson in our T20 side for 1 knock every 10 innings like he played in T20 WC final when the rest of the time he's dotting up for innings like 20 off 23.

I'd prefer Allen & Chapman to KW and Mitchell in our top XI, although would like the see Mitchell in the squad on Australian decks.

That would be a top 6 of; (3 lefties, 3 righties)

Guptill
Allen
Conway +
Chapman
Phillips
Neesham

And captain could be Santner, Guptill or Conway (anyone?) ..

 

[Moss]

Not sure we can continue carrying Williamson in our T20 side for 1 knock every 10 innings like he played in T20 WC final when the rest of the time he's dotting up for innings like 20 off 23.

Yeah was thinking the same thing. His 47 in the first game hinted at better things to come but TBF Windies were bowling dross then. As soon as they tightened things up and built pressure in the third game, he looked more like the batsman who invited all sorts of derision when turning out for the Sunrisers in this year's IPL.

He'll be needed in Australia though because NZ's batting could otherwise well be found out there. But again, don't think NZ can afford all three of present-day Guptill, Conway and KW at the top.

 

[SteveNZ]

Agreed. Worth remembering that before that epic knock in the T20 final, Kane got 5 off 11 in the semi, 28 off 25, 40* off 42, 0 off 4, 25 off 26 and 33* off 31. Less than a run a ball across that tournament, and obviously he had a horrendous IPL as well.

Gup always takes balls to get set, so when you combine those two in your top 3, you need so much to go right around them to win games of T20.

Hence why I want Finn Allen in the side.

 

[Zinzan]

Yep someone needs to explain to Williamson that in T20 cricket every ball is an event, and he has to somehow go against his ingrained institutionalised instinct to protect his wicket at all times (until he's dug a hole for himself and finds he's on 5 off 10 balls), the way to achieve that is NOT to get to a place where he's 5 off 10 to start with. I actually appreciated the 2nd T20 when he was out 1st ball so he couldn't waste deliveries for his side, and no surprise it was our best batting performance of the series.

 

[Zinzan]

Furthermore, surely we're not that reliant on his T20 captaincy alone to play him in spite being such a liability with the bat are we?

 

[ashley bach]

Yep someone needs to explain to Williamson that in T20 cricket every ball is an event, and he has to somehow go against his ingrained institutionalised instinct to protect his wicket at all times (until he's dug a hole for himself and finds he's on 5 off 10 balls), the way to achieve that is NOT to get to a place where he's 5 off 10 to start with. I actually appreciated the 2nd T20 when he was out 1st ball so he couldn't waste deliveries for his side, and no surprise it was our best batting performance of the series.

Don't think anyone needs to explain anything to Kane quite frankly. Any player who has the ability to win the orange cap in the IPL has not only tons
of ability but also the nous for 20/20 cricket. What he needs is to find his mojo again.
Doesn't matter what version of cricket we're talking about, when you're down in the dumps with your form, it'll generally show over all formats.
I certainly haven't given up on seeing him get back to his best, just hope like many others here no doubt that it's sooner rather than later.

 

[Moss]

Don’t think it’s an issue so much with Kane the T20 player (though he needs to get out of this trot very soon), as the inflexibility with which NZ are operating at the moment. Beating a dead horse, I guess.

Re: the situation with the top 3, wasn’t long ago that you had Guptill and Munro opening and providing the firepower, makes you wonder if the decision to close the door on Munro was too soon. [also, will Boult get the same treatment from the selectors for prioritising T20 leagues? nah]

 

[WICFan]

Jermaine Blackwood and Yannic Cariah have been called up to replace Shimron Hetmyer (family emergency) and Keemo Paul (injury).

Gudakesh Motie failed his fitness test and has been replaced by Odean Smith.

 

[SteveNZ]

Don’t think it’s an issue so much with Kane the T20 player (though he needs to get out of this trot very soon), as the inflexibility with which NZ are operating at the moment. Beating a dead horse, I guess.

Re: the situation with the top 3, wasn’t long ago that you had Guptill and Munro opening and providing the firepower, makes you wonder if the decision to close the door on Munro was too soon. [also, will Boult get the same treatment from the selectors for prioritising T20 leagues? nah]

Great point. Munro was in our best XI after he became a franchise for hire guy, and was ignored. Well I say that, but it was only his participation in the BBL that jeopardised it, given it aligned with our domestic comp. I guess NZC would probably point to that, and say that if Trent turns out for other leagues and makes himself unavailable during our summer, that it becomes an issue.

I just think our game model is wrong, too. We start cautiously, no matter what the conditions. Eden Park apart, Gup is never 30 off 12-18, or 20 off 10. Neither is Kane (he wasn't in the T20 final knock, either). Then it squeezes our middle order into a hell of pressure. We've finally produced a blitzkrieg hitter at the top, and we won't pick him because experience/loyalty. I get it, but I don't like it necessarily.

Allen is striking at 169 in T20Is, 173 in T20s overall. Is that an asset we can afford to not be using, even if it's a one-off game against the Windies? The guy hasn't played a major nation yet. Give him a shot.

 

[nzfan]

Obviously would love to see Allen opening but then Guppy is a legend and a one off... ideal to have Conway at 3 and Kane at 4. Slot Allen at the top of the order and still keep Guptill till the time he wants to play. If Kane can use Phillips or Mitchell as bowlers to fill in couple of overs or three problem will be solved but then he doesn't which means we need 4 bowlers in the line up always.

 

[thundaboult]

Obviously would love to see Allen opening but then Guppy is a legend and a one off... ideal to have Conway at 3 and Kane at 4. Slot Allen at the top of the order and still keep Guptill till the time he wants to play. If Kane can use Phillips or Mitchell as bowlers to fill in couple of overs or three problem will be solved but then he doesn't which means we need 4 bowlers in the line up always.

I like this top order too tbh, Kane doesn't have to be no.3 in t20s

 

[SteveNZ]

I don't like Kane at 4, unless you're prepared to float him down to suit the situation.

People are probably right, Gup's time might still be now and Finn's soon, but if it was my side I'd be swapping them out and trying to play the sort of bold cricket that even if it doesn't win us tournaments, it is bloody fun to watch.

 

[Zinzan]

Obviously would love to see Allen opening but then Guppy is a legend and a one off... ideal to have Conway at 3 and Kane at 4.

Why KW at 4 in T20Is? His career SR isn't good enough to earn a spot, and that WC final-like innings comes 1 every 7-8 innings. As I said earlier, the one occasion in recent times when he got a first ball duck (2nd T20) & hence didn't stink up the joint by dotting up around a few singles, we got our highest score of the series. Do let me know if I'm missing something here? If it's that we need him as skipper in T20s when most tactics are decided off the field, I don't buy that.

 

[Moss]

Obviously would love to see Allen opening but then Guppy is a legend and a one off...

I'd love to see Guptill turn things around but his case is starting to remind me of Taylor in tests last year. Was pretty obvious during the (2021) tests in England that Ross was fading, and his knock in the final should have been the perfect swansong. Instead he chose to go on tour to India where he had been particularly ineffective in the past, and it was painful to watch. Though I suppose the lack of meaningful white ball cricket in over 2 years has been an issue for Guptill, Kane and others.

 

[Beamer]

Jermaine Blackwood and Yannic Cariah have been called up to replace Shimron Hetmyer (family emergency) and Keemo Paul (injury).

Gudakesh Motie failed his fitness test and has been replaced by Odean Smith.

Goodness. They really do pick names out of a hat in white ball cricket nowadays. Blackwood averages 27 in List A cricket, Cariah has excelled in red ball cricket in recent years but averages 25 with the bat in just 18 List A matches. He does bowl some decent leggies though.

So what's the lineup looking like then? At a guess:

Shai Hope (wk)
Kyle Mayers
Shamarh Brooks
Nicholas Pooran
Keacy Carty/Brandon King
Rovman Powell/Yanic Cariah
Jason Holder
Akheil Hossein
Alzari Joseph
Kevin Sinclair
Jayden Seales

It's just so weak and like the T20 team, lacks any sort of plan or strategy.

 

[CricAddict]

Goodness. They really do pick names out of a hat in white ball cricket nowadays. Blackwood averages 27 in List A cricket, Cariah has excelled in red ball cricket in recent years but averages 25 with the bat in just 18 List A matches. He does bowl some decent leggies though.

So what's the lineup looking like then? At a guess:

Shai Hope (wk)
Kyle Mayers
Shamarh Brooks
Nicholas Pooran
Keacy Carty/Brandon King
Rovman Powell/Yanic Cariah
Jason Holder
Akheil Hossein
Alzari Joseph
Kevin Sinclair
Jayden Seales

It's just so weak and like the T20 team, lacks any sort of plan or strategy.

Powell has been dropped from the squad.

 

[Beamer]

Powell has been dropped from the squad.

Ah sorry! Replace Powell with Cariah/King it Blackwood then.

Either way, we're a shambles.