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Jacques Kallis vs Allan Border

Who was the greater test batsman?

  • Jacques Kallis

    Votes: 28 50.0%
  • Allan Border

    Votes: 28 50.0%

  • Total voters
    56

Victor Ian

International Coach
Ya, I barely saw him at all, and these things are highly situational, but I really can't see how the ability to accelerate in a lower-middle bat would not be massively useful.

You are likely right in your impression that it was 10 more runs and done when he got out, but that was likely a result of there typically only being the tail left when he did so... he faced a hell of a lot of balls per innings from low down in a weak line up, and unless he was the best strike farmer ever, that's a lot of balls for the opposition to cut the chaff away while he didn't score that many runs.

IDK exactly how relevant this theory is to border... the way cricket typically works it should be, but, as I said, I barely watched him. The idea was a response to the suggestion that Kallis should be penalised for slow scoring in relation to Border when the vast majority of generally applicable principles suggest the opposite to be true.

TBH now though, I'm more interested in how well it holds up as a general stat for the (lower) middle than its applicability to Border.
Agree. The idea that accelerating before the tail goes should earn more for the team as a concept makes sense. @Burgey will know better, but I never felt as if Border was slow. I always had the impression he was one of the quicker scorers in the team. Whether that is because his team were cactus or whether it was about par for the 80's or whether it was just being an idol, I can't say.
 

Calm_profit

State Vice-Captain
Most centuries of border have come with tailenders,and also border batted at 3 and 4 where he averaged 46 and 50+ respectively, which I can't say about Kallis.
 

Burgey

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Agree. The idea that accelerating before the tail goes should earn more for the team as a concept makes sense. @Burgey will know better, but I never felt as if Border was slow. I always had the impression he was one of the quicker scorers in the team. Whether that is because his team were cactus or whether it was about par for the 80's or whether it was just being an idol, I can't say.
Yeah earlier Border scored quick enough but he got worn down by being surrounded by duds for a few years, then as he toward the real back half of his career he grafted much more than when he was younger
 

TheJediBrah

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What I mean to say is Border can play at any position as a batsman,which I can't say same about Kallis.
Kallis could accelerate if he needed to, he just never wanted to, and like most players it would almost certainly have dropped his average considerably if he did score quicker.

I'm pulling numbers out of nowhere but I don't doubt Kallis could have scored at a SR of 60-65 over the course of a career at an average of ~40-45 if he was a bit more aggressive
 

Bolo.

International Captain
Kallis could accelerate if he needed to, he just never wanted to, and like most players it would almost certainly have dropped his average considerably if he did score quicker.

I'm pulling numbers out of nowhere but I don't doubt Kallis could have scored at a SR of 60-65 over the course of a career at an average of ~40-45 if he was a bit more aggressive
That is one of the most poorly veiled insults I have ever seen.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
I'm pulling numbers out of nowhere but I don't doubt Kallis could have scored at a SR of 60-65 over the course of a career at an average of ~40-45 if he was a bit more aggressive
Kallis' did have a SR of 54 and averaged 67 in a latter phase of his career, mostly because the rest of the lineup was scoring at a faster pace too. He pretty much followed the tempo of the rest of the batting order.
 

trundler

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I'm interested in whether Border was ever accused of selfishness for batting #5 at a sub 50sr during his career. Doing so now would amount to treason I imagine.

Chappelli's been on the best batsman bats #3 train for about 50 years now and as a senior figure at the time he would've had something to say I'm sure.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
I'm interested in whether Border was ever accused of selfishness for batting #5 at a sub 50sr during his career. Doing so now would amount to treason I imagine.

Chappelli's been on the best batsman bats #3 train for about 50 years now and as a senior figure at the time he would've had something to say I'm sure.
Chappell did put Border very low in the top 25 Ashes cricketers of his lifetime.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Border, Waugh, Chanderpaul, Flower and Thorpe all take a big hit when it comes to runs per innings and weighted batting average. Clive Lloyd doesn’t though.
 

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