Better Test bowler: Anderson vs Willis.

[Tom Flint]

Since when does a bowlers average not include no balls?

 

[trundler]

Since when does a bowlers average not include no balls?

It did not before some point in the 80s. See also: back foot no ball rule.

 

[Tom Flint]

Never knew that

 

[Coronis]

Pretty sure Willis averages like 28 or something if you include all the no balls.

And where is that list of no balls? Does this mean Lillee’s average becomes 26+? Can I change any averages based on rules brought in after a player’s career ended?

See also: back foot no ball rule.

Happened in 1963, not relevant for Willis’ career is it?

 

[trundler]

Happened in 1963, not relevant for Willis’ career is it?

No but it was an example of a pretty massive rule change someone might not be aware of.

 

[Pothas]

And where is that list of no balls? Does this mean Lillee’s average becomes 26+? Can I change any averages based on rules brought in after a player’s career ended?

https://wisden.com/stories/podcast/no-ball-bowling-averages

Willis bowled a **** ton of no balls.

 

[trundler]

Instinctively I feel like Anderson is much better than Willis and Philander et al but clearly worse than Pollock and Walsh. I'd group him with Statham but not sure who else. Southee has an outside chance I suppose.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Instinctively I feel like Anderson is much better than Willis and Philander et al but clearly worse than Pollock and Walsh. I'd group him with Statham but not sure who else. Southee has an outside chance I suppose.

A Pakistani bowler, probably.

Waqar?

 

[trundler]

A Pakistani bowler, probably.

Waqar?

Nah, feels wrong. I'd have said Southee a year ago though.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Nah, feels wrong. I'd have said Southee a year ago though.

Well, I guess my other choice would be (if he would not have done all the **** that he did) …Mohammad Asif.

Still light years ahead of Jimmy though (in his prime)

 

[trundler]

Well, I guess my other choice would be (if he would not have done all the **** that he did) …Mohammad Asif.

Still light years ahead of Jimmy though (in his prime)

Yeah see you'd have to make a reach and go with some guy based on potential. I think Snow was a fantastic bowler but unfortunately just didn't play enough for non cricketing reasons. A damn shame too. Bedser comes across as a rough equivalent but he played about a decade in all and had more limitations. Stupid workload though, that's gotta count for something.

 

[Johan]

Beyond a certain point I personally only really find longevity useful for differentiating between players where they are very close or equal in all other factors. No doubt Anderson’s peak has been great, but it doesn’t mean I should ignore the period outside of that (his first 10 years) were he was average at best at home and exceedingly mediocre overseas.

Even considering his work over the last 8 years, he still averages well above 30 in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa (notoriously helpful bowling countries) and Sri Lanka, barely under 30 in India. Comparing to Willis, who averaged below 30 everywhere except the West Indies, and below 25 except Australia and Pakistan.

I am not implying that we should just ignore 10 years or so of his career , that'd be ridiculous , just that he has had a monstrous peak

regarding averages , I am skeptical , are you saying those are his career general averages or that he has been averaging 30+ in those nations in the 2014-2022 , or hell 2011-2022 timeframe that I gave for him?

among pace bowlers since 2011 - https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...1;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

in Last 11 years its 30 in Aus and SA , 31 in NZ , 29 in Nz , 23 in Sl and 20 in Wi/UAE respectively

anderson's own - https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...1;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[BazBall21]

It did not before some point in the 80s. See also: back foot no ball rule.

Depends I guess if you think bowlers wouId have been more conscious of no balls if they knew it affected their numbers.

 

[BazBall21]

Well, I guess my other choice would be (if he would not have done all the **** that he did) …Mohammad Asif.

Still light years ahead of Jimmy though (in his prime)

Asif was awesome

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Yeah see you'd have to make a reach and go with some guy based on potential. I think Snow was a fantastic bowler but unfortunately just didn't play enough for non cricketing reasons. A damn shame too. Bedser comes across as a rough equivalent but he played about a decade in all and had more limitations. Stupid workload though, that's gotta count for something.

They will continue to be in lore.

Bedser always interests me.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Asif was awesome

Undoubtedly the best of his time (when he was playing)

 

[Coronis]

I am not implying that we should just ignore 10 years or so of his career , that'd be ridiculous , just that he has had a monstrous peak

regarding averages , I am skeptical , are you saying those are his career general averages or that he has been averaging 30+ in those nations in the 2014-2022 , or hell 2011-2022 timeframe that I gave for him?

among pace bowlers since 2011 - https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...1;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

in Last 11 years its 30 in Aus and SA , 31 in NZ , 29 in Nz , 23 in Sl and 20 in Wi/UAE respectively

anderson's own - https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...1;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Career averages, despite his recent stats.

 

[Johan]

Career averages, despite his recent stats.

I see

 

[Gob]

Never knew that

You should save this line for a lot of things with regards to cricket

 

[Gob]

Just my opinion

Snow > Willis > Statham > Anderson

I would agree if this is based on their respective acting abilities

Not on bowling though