Who is Australia's Greatest Captain?

[AndrewB]

I'm in total agreement when it comes to ranking Benaud as Australia' greatest captain.

Both Border and Chappell lifted mediocre teams and I rank the former higher. Chappell had the benefit of Lillee and Thompson.

I think that's generous to Border: in his first four years as captain (i.e. when Australia were mediocre) they won 1 series out of 3 against NZ, 0 out of 2 against equally mediocre England teams (and drew a one-off), won a one-off against SL, drew 2 series 0-0 with India (the first of which could easily have been 2-0 to India), and lost a series each against Pakistan and WI.
Everything I've seen about his captaincy at that stage was basically sympathising with him for having such a thankless role, but reckoning he'd made a pretty poor job of it (e.g. Greg Matthews said "I have an unbelievable amount of respect for Allan Border, but he was a poor captain.")

 

[subshakerz]

I think that's generous to Border: in his first four years as captain (i.e. when Australia were mediocre) they won 1 series out of 3 against NZ, 0 out of 2 against equally mediocre England teams (and drew a one-off), won a one-off against SL, drew 2 series 0-0 with India (the first of which could easily have been 2-0 to India), and lost a series each against Pakistan and WI.
Everything I've seen about his captaincy at that stage was basically sympathising with him for having such a thankless role, but reckoning he'd made a pretty poor job of it (e.g. Greg Matthews said "I have an unbelievable amount of respect for Allan Border, but he was a poor captain.")

Yeah, I think it is fair to say he took a long time to get the right mindset towards captaincy as he had from 89 onwards. Its not like his team was much better then.

 

[subshakerz]

Interestingly enough, Taylor was considered an attacking test captain but conservative ODI one, while Border was thought the opposite.

 

[GIMH]

I can't believe Clarke is even in the list; from memory three Ashes defeats, and behaved like a complete arsehole the one time he was lucky enough to have Johnson turn up.

Wasn’t it two defeats? 2013 and 15?

I know what you mean about the whole ‘get ready for a broken ****ing arm’ thing but I like Clarke. Was always a really good interview about his own form and technique, and the way he conducted himself after the Phil Hughes death was class on a level I don’t think many could manage.

As captain though I think he was a good leader of men, had an absolute purple patch with the blade and had some innovative ideas but they were never a consistent Test side under him I don’t think.

 

[wpdavid]

Wasn’t it two defeats? 2013 and 15?

I know what you mean about the whole ‘get ready for a broken ****ing arm’ thing but I like Clarke. Was always a really good interview about his own form and technique, and the way he conducted himself after the Phil Hughes death was class on a level I don’t think many could manage.

As captain though I think he was a good leader of men, had an absolute purple patch with the blade and had some innovative ideas but they were never a consistent Test side under him I don’t think.

I thought he captained the side in 2010/11 after Ponting retired. Might be imagining it though.

EDIT
No, he was only in charge for the fifth test, so it's harsh to blame him for that series. As for his attitude, 2013/14 was the one chance he had to be an arsehole, and he grabbed it with both hands. He didn't have so much to say for himself when we were stuffing his boys in 2013 and 2015.

 

[ashley bach]

It is a tough one. Am surprised Chappelli doesn't have any votes.

Indeed it's a tough one, and no doubt we'll never have a definitive answer.
Also a bit surprised Chappelli doesn't get more votes from having heard about what team mates etc thought of his leadership qualities.
Possibly something that counts against him was getting his brother Trevor to roll the ball along the ground in the infamous underarm incident.
He should have realised the drama that would cause, but more than anything, it was just totally unnecessary.

 

[wpdavid]

Indeed it's a tough one, and no doubt we'll never have a definitive answer.
Also a bit surprised Chappelli doesn't get more votes from having heard about what team mates etc thought of his leadership qualities.
Possibly something that counts against him was getting his brother Trevor to roll the ball along the ground in the infamous underarm incident.
He should have realised the drama that would cause, but more than anything, it was just totally unnecessary.

That was Greg who told Trevor to roll the ball along the ground, not Ian.

 

[ashley bach]

That was Greg who told Trevor to roll the ball along the ground, not Ian.

It was too, cheers I'd totally forgotten it was that long ago, but it's still his fault for having a prick of a brother.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think that's generous to Border: in his first four years as captain (i.e. when Australia were mediocre) they won 1 series out of 3 against NZ

Should've been 0 out of 3 too (Mike Whitney given not out to a plumb LBW from Danny Morrison in 87/88).

 

[subshakerz]

It was too, cheers I'd totally forgotten it was that long ago, but it's still his fault for having a prick of a brother.

Actually Ian was in the commentary box then, wasnt he?

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Tim ****ing Paine!

 

[ashley bach]

Actually Ian was in the commentary box then, wasnt he?

Yeah maybe, photo finish at very least, certainly Richie and Bill Lawry were commentating that day.
Damn I miss those guys, commentators these days are too plentiful, just not in the same class.

 

[ashley bach]

Should've been 0 out of 3 too (Mike Whitney given not out to a plumb LBW from Danny Morrison in 87/88).

God damn Fuller should of known you'd never forget an incident like that.
Perhaps that was also the same match where Greg Dyer took that fantastic catch down the leg side?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

God damn Fuller should of known you'd never forget an incident like that.
Perhaps that was also the same match where Greg Dyer took that fantastic catch down the leg side?

It was - Andrew Jones "caught" by Dyer