*Official* South African tour of England and Ireland 2022

[StephenZA]

Who would have been in your squads?

Dean Elgar (captain, Titans), Sarel Erwee (Dolphins), Marco Jansen (Warrios), Simon Harmer (Titans), Keshav Maharaj (Dolphins), Aiden Markram (Titans), Lungi Ngidi (Titans), Anrich Nortje (Warriors), Duanne Olivier (Lions), Keegan Petersen (Dolphins), Kagiso Rabada (Lions), Ryan Rickelton (Lions), Lutho Sipamla (Lions), Rassie van der Dussen (Lions), Kyle Verreynne (Western Province), Khaya Zondo (Dolphins), Glenton Stuurman (Warrio

Van Tonder, Coetzee, J. Malan, Mulder, de Zozi, Linde, M. Ackerman, Breetzke, Bedingham (unsure if available!) (Hamza is currently not available)... off the top of my head.

 

[Marius]

I am not blaming Harmer... it is CSA's fault. But my point when I see Harmer/Olivier in the squad I don't seem CSA building SA cricket future I see them picking players of the 'now' that don't help SA cricket future. And that is harsh on those players, but unfortunately it is the reality we live in.

What is your cut-off, 30 unless you are a core member of the squad?

One of the things that made the Aussies so strong, especially that Ponting era, was that they picked the best, didn't matter how old you were. I think Mike Hussey was over 30 when he made his debut for Aus, Gilchrist was also getting on I think.

 

[Heboric]

What is your cut-off, 30 unless you are a core member of the squad?

One of the things that made the Aussies so strong, especially that Ponting era, was that they picked the best, didn't matter how old you were. I think Mike Hussey was over 30 when he made his debut for Aus, Gilchrist was also getting on I think.

Oz had a very strong first class competition then. Unlike ours...

 

[StephenZA]

What is your cut-off, 30 unless you are a core member of the squad?

One of the things that made the Aussies so strong, especially that Ponting era, was that they picked the best, didn't matter how old you were. I think Mike Hussey was over 30 when he made his debut for Aus, Gilchrist was also getting on I think.

The thing that made Aus strong was a solid FC competition that allowed them to bleed players one by one into a strong team... if we had a strong team and FC competition I would say go for it. We don't have either. We have players that are largely good journeyman, but not truly international world class in a the international team. But we do have lots of talented youngsters that are sitting around not getting the experience they need. We need to bring them up a level, sink or swim, build a team that will be world class in 3-4 years time. While we do that fix the FC problems so that we don't end in the same situation we are in now.... long term planning for short term pain!.

 

[Marius]

Dean Elgar (captain, Titans), Sarel Erwee (Dolphins), Marco Jansen (Warrios), Simon Harmer (Titans), Keshav Maharaj (Dolphins), Aiden Markram (Titans), Lungi Ngidi (Titans), Anrich Nortje (Warriors), Duanne Olivier (Lions), Keegan Petersen (Dolphins), Kagiso Rabada (Lions), Ryan Rickelton (Lions), Lutho Sipamla (Lions), Rassie van der Dussen (Lions), Kyle Verreynne (Western Province), Khaya Zondo (Dolphins), Glenton Stuurman (Warrio

Van Tonder, Coetzee, J. Malan, Mulder, de Zozi, Linde, M. Ackerman, Breetzke, Bedingham (unsure if available!) (Hamza is currently not available)... off the top of my head.

I must say, I'm struggling to understand some of the logic. Harmer shouldn't be picked because he's being picked on reputation yet Mulder, who hasn't done much in Tests to justify his continued selection, should be picked for the squad?

And while I'm not the biggest fan of Zondo, he had a decent FC season and certainly deserves to be in the squad ahead of someone like De Zorzi, and even Van Tonder, on current form.

 

[Marius]

Oz had a very strong first class competition then. Unlike ours...

That was certainly a major factor in the success. Think they just hit a sweet spot with a number of issues, allowing them to have one of the best teams that's ever played.

 

[StephenZA]

I must say, I'm struggling to understand some of the logic. Harmer shouldn't be picked because he's being picked on reputation yet Mulder, who hasn't done much in Tests to justify his continued selection, should be picked for the squad?

And while I'm not the biggest fan of Zondo, he had a decent FC season and certainly deserves to be in the squad ahead of someone like De Zorzi, and even Van Tonder, on current form.

Form is temporary class is permanent. If we had a strong team of quality players, and needed to replace a single batsmen you pick the form player.

That is not what we are talking about here. I am talking about picking the younger talented players and letting us build a team for 3/4 years time. Based on current talent, players like van Tonder, Breetzke, Mulder are most likely getting us to the top again... the current selection is not. But in a few years time we hope to pick these now more mature talented players, and expect them to perform when they have had little to no exposure at top class level?! And a poor FC structure. Mulder has shown his potential, I don't expect him to be knocking off hundreds yet... I expect him to be doing that when he hits 25-30 tests.

Harmer is not the direct issue, Harmer for me is the symptom of selection. Same as Erwee, Zondo, Stuurman, Olivier.

 

[chris.hinton]

A nice start.... not. South Africa look a level above

 

[Nintendo]

Also, on the topic of mulder his fc form leading up to the squad's being picked warrants discussion. He had 240 runs @ a mid 20 average and 1 50 after 6 games and 45 with the ball. He hasn't done much at test level with the bat yet, and his county form wouldn't have given the selectors much faith to work on anyway. Things have worked out anyway, he's made back to back tons including a 235* since the squad was picked and got the season batting stats to 600 runs @50. If he'de been picked he would be in a LOI squad right now and not be playing county.

 

[green machine]

Looking forward to England vs SA test series coming up.

There has been some excellent analysis about how the terrible batch of dukes balls has aided middle order batting significantly (for India and NZ not just England). From memory the batting averages from overs 30-80 are up around 50 runs or so (from around about 30) with the new batch of these awful balls that go soft and out of shape so easily. These balls are not good for cricket.

A lot of question marks sill for England, not just with SA's excellent bowling line up, but with different pitches and conditions - and different balls around the world. South Africa have been scrapping hard even with their limited batting recently and they always seem to play tough cricket. England flying at home, should be a great series.

 

[Jarquis]

You can't not pick Harmer... if anything were to happen to Maharaj then he's the only viable alternative. Who exactly are you upset about missing out on the squad @StephenZA ?

 

[StephenZA]

You can't not pick Harmer... if anything were to happen to Maharaj then he's the only viable alternative. Who exactly are you upset about missing out on the squad @StephenZA ?

See above... see SA selection thread.

 

[StephenZA]

Also, on the topic of mulder his fc form leading up to the squad's being picked warrants discussion. He had 240 runs @ a mid 20 average and 1 50 after 6 games and 45 with the ball. He hasn't done much at test level with the bat yet, and his county form wouldn't have given the selectors much faith to work on anyway. Things have worked out anyway, he's made back to back tons including a 235* since the squad was picked and got the season batting stats to 600 runs @50. If he'de been picked he would be in a LOI squad right now and not be playing county.

I just would like to see Mulder picked for the Test squad... I don't care about the LO selection. I would also have liked to see van Tonder, Coetzee and Linde picked for the Test squad.

 

[Nintendo]

I just would like to see Mulder picked for the Test squad... I don't care about the LO selection. I would also have liked to see van Tonder, Coetzee and Linde picked for the Test squad.

I agree on the other guys you want in the test squad, just think picking mulder with the county form he was in at the time would have been odd. Saying that, not picking an all-rounder and leaving us with jansen at 7 as a likely prospect is no better, think either ruan de swardt or poetgieter both would have been better selections.

 

[Jarquis]

See above... see SA selection thread.

Linde is 30, hardly a spring chicken

 

[StephenZA]

Linde is 30, hardly a spring chicken

I would not select a second spinner for England at this stage... and this is not about Harmer, as such... I have the same problem with Harmers selection, not as an individual, but along with other selections in the squad and what it says about SA selection policy in general.

 

[Jarquis]

I think you’ve got a point with some of the others perhaps but Harmer is just so much clearly better than all of the other alternatives that it seems really peculiar to me that he, in particular, has drawn so much ire.

 

[StephenZA]

I think you’ve got a point with some of the others perhaps but Harmer is just so much clearly better than all of the other alternatives that it seems really peculiar to me that he, in particular, has drawn so much ire.

But he has not drawn any ire from me... people keep asking about him, because I made a throw away comment that I would not have selected him. As far as I am concerned, his selection is part of the underlying selection policy creating the long term issues for SA. If it was just about Harmer I probably not have an issue, but I am lumping Harmer in with the rest.

Make this very clear. I don't think Harmer is a bad player. I just don't see his usefulness on this tour (if Maharaj was injured I would select him). I would much rather be bringing younger players, particularly batsmen, and giving them exposure. This is not new from me, I've been saying the same thing for years now. And in that time we still have our most talented players sitting at home getting no decent exposure.

 

[Chrish]

So Stoke’s test captaincy will last till September??

 

[wpdavid]

So Stoke’s test captaincy will last till September??

tbf SA have tended to see off England captains who've been in situ for rather longer than Stokes: Hussain, Vaughan and Strauss all 4 or 5 years. Root would have been vulnerable if he hadn't stood down at the start of the summer, but Stokes should be safe whatever happens.