*Official* South African tour of England and Ireland 2022

[StephenZA]

Why aren't you a fan of Harmer's selection?

Mainly because we would never normally have a 2nd spinner in England... thus his selection is based on reputation, and I don't like that thinking when we are leaving players like Mulder out of the squad. Again it comes back to are we trying to build towards the future or not.... and for me the general attitude is not and we will continue being in the same predicament as we are now in 5 years time.

I know its a different sport, I know it has more money in SA... but look at the continuous development of younger players, and large squads for the SA rugby team. And think also how they have grown it from grass roots up. Not perfect, some serious issues at times. But far more forward thinking, and it has done the sport and put the team in a much better place long term. Even on the 'quota' issue. SA cricket started in a much better place and will still stagnant and getting further behind.

 

[Dendarii]

Jansen as a favourite golden boy is not a good look for the team selection... I like him and don't mind him in the squad or the team at 8.

I completely agree. Jansen has shown some ability with the bat, and it's not impossible that he might develop into a proper all-rounder. But he's not there yet, and 7 is one spot too high for him in the batting order.

Going with a specialist batsman over Mulder is still a bit harsh on him but an understandable decision. Jansen over Mulder though might come off sometimes but it's way too much of a risk with a batting line-up that isn't consistently putting up big scores.

 

[Marius]

Mainly because we would never normally have a 2nd spinner in England... thus his selection is based on reputation, and I don't like that thinking when we are leaving players like Mulder out of the squad. Again it comes back to are we trying to build towards the future or not.... and for me the general attitude is not and we will continue being in the same predicament as we are now in 5 years time.

I know its a different sport, I know it has more money in SA... but look at the continuous development of younger players, and large squads for the SA rugby team. And think also how they have grown it from grass roots up. Not perfect, some serious issues at times. But far more forward thinking, and it has done the sport and put the team in a much better place long term. Even on the 'quota' issue. SA cricket started in a much better place and will still stagnant and getting further behind.

Harmer has been cleaning up in the UK, and in SA, and had a good series v Bdl, I hardly think his selection is based on just his 'reputation,' his numbers back it up.

It's hard to say the same about Mulder right now. Probably the best thing for Mulder is for him to do some graft in FC cricket and it seems to be paying off, he just got a double ton for Leicestershire.

And yes, we would not normally have a second spinner in the UK but Harmer is probably one of the best bowlers - seam or spin - available to SA right now. We would never have played two spinners in SA normally (I think the last time we did might have been the late 1960s v Aus) but he showed that his selection was a good one.

English pitches also often take spin as the game goes on and depending on other factors, playing two spinners wouldn't be mad.

Not picking Harmer would have had far more in common with the old way of thinking in SA cricket - 'We can't pick a second spinner, we never do.'

 

[Starfighter]

I'm disappointed at Harmer's selection because he'll be carrying drinks rather than cleaning up some hapless county side, but you can't deny weight of wickets is why he's been picked.

 

[Heboric]

Mainly because we would never normally have a 2nd spinner in England... thus his selection is based on reputation, and I don't like that thinking when we are leaving players like Mulder out of the squad. Again it comes back to are we trying to build towards the future or not.... and for me the general attitude is not and we will continue being in the same predicament as we are now in 5 years time.

I know its a different sport, I know it has more money in SA... but look at the continuous development of younger players, and large squads for the SA rugby team. And think also how they have grown it from grass roots up. Not perfect, some serious issues at times. But far more forward thinking, and it has done the sport and put the team in a much better place long term. Even on the 'quota' issue. SA cricket started in a much better place and will still stagnant and getting further behind.

This whole thing has made our first class cricket so much weaker, players "forced" to go kolpak and unlike rugby, kolpak player couldnt play for SA. You look at that Bok squad and consists of a large proportion of players playing overseas

 

[StephenZA]

I am not denying Harmers abilities or skill... but unless we play 2 spinners in the team he is carrying drinks. But either way him in the squad either as a 'reserve' or in the team does not build towards the future of SA cricket. Right now the SA team shows little to no future thinking... its the same as what I was talking about 4 years ago. SA cricket right now is treading water but what it needs is to be rebuilt.

 

[StephenZA]

This whole thing has made our first class cricket so much weaker, players "forced" to go kolpak and unlike rugby kolpak player couldnt play for SA. You look at that Bok squad and consists of a large proportion of players playing overseas

Yes they where willing to pick overseas players... but they went for local younger players first. They did not tie their own hands but also looked towards the future. Even now they did not go back to Vermeulen... cricket selection would have.

 

[Heboric]

Yes they where willing to pick overseas players... but they went for local younger players first. They did not tie their own hands but also looked towards the future. Even now they did not go back to Vermeulen... cricket selection would have.

Vermeulen was injured I think they would have picked him if he was fit. Plus it was Wales if it was the All Blacks I dont think they would have been so bold and stuck with the most experienced squad they could

 

[StephenZA]

Vermeulen was injured I think they would have picked him if he was fit. Plus it was Wales if it was the All Blacks I dont think they would have been so bold and stuck with the most experienced squad they could

He was not picked so that he could have a knee operation... plus they wanted to give the younger players a shot. But the point is there they looking after the players and continuously building towards the future when they can. Even losing a test to Wales at home with a very inexperienced squad. Ultimately it is not just about the one match or series it is about consistently balancing between trying to produce results and looking forward. They are able to do that because of the younger players available, which is grass roots structure, but also they have spent time rebuilding the squads.

SA cricket are doing none of that, at grass roots or senior level. And people have been calling for it for years. When I look at the current squads I still don't see any progress or forward thinking.

 

[Marius]

He was not picked so that he could have a knee operation... plus they wanted to give the younger players a shot. But the point is there they looking after the players and continuously building towards the future when they can. Even losing a test to Wales at home with a very inexperienced squad. Ultimately it is not just about the one match or series it is about consistently balancing between trying to produce results and looking forward. They are able to do that because of the younger players available, which is grass roots structure, but also they have spent time rebuilding the squads.

SA cricket are doing none of that, at grass roots or senior level. And people have been calling for it for years. When I look at the current squads I still don't see any progress or forward thinking.

I think you could argue picking guys like Gerald Coetzee and Rilee Rossouw for the T20 squad is showing some forward thinking. Rilee is one of the best T20 batsmen in the world right now and has been picked despite his past with the Proteas and, as far as I know, not having a domestic side. And Coetzee obviously being picked on potential.

 

[Heboric]

He was not picked so that he could have a knee operation... plus they wanted to give the younger players a shot. But the point is there they looking after the players and continuously building towards the future when they can. Even losing a test to Wales at home with a very inexperienced squad. Ultimately it is not just about the one match or series it is about consistently balancing between trying to produce results and looking forward. They are able to do that because of the younger players available, which is grass roots structure, but also they have spent time rebuilding the squads.

SA cricket are doing none of that, at grass roots or senior level. And people have been calling for it for years. When I look at the current squads I still don't see any progress or forward thinking.

While I agree on planning for the future, you dont do it on tours to England. Maybe Mulder should have replaced Duanne Olivier

 

[StephenZA]

I think you could argue picking guys like Gerald Coetzee and Rilee Rossouw for the T20 squad is showing some forward thinking. Rilee is one of the best T20 batsmen in the world right now and has been picked despite his past with the Proteas and, as far as I know, not having a domestic side. And Coetzee obviously being picked on potential.

Unfortunately I don't care much about the T20s... great for Rilee. Its nice to see Coetzee in selectors heads, but it worries me to see Coetzee in the T20s, mainly because I don't think T20s is where you learn your skills for Tests and secondly because I don't think he is a T20 style bowler. I would hate for him to get smashed around the park in T20s and lose confidence when its just not his forte. We shall see. I look at the squads and no I don't see a rebuilding attitude I see a lets continue making the poor decisions, even if they are slightly better than 2 years ago.

 

[StephenZA]

While I agree on planning for the future, you dont do it on tours to England. Maybe Mulder should have replaced Duanne Olivier

But this is always the excuse.... and yes Mulder should be in place of Olivier at the very least. The problem is that we would not have to be 'rebuilding' if we started 4/5 years ago, when the writing was on the wall... but kicking the can down the road does nothing either.

 

[Dendarii]

I think you could argue picking guys like Gerald Coetzee and Rilee Rossouw for the T20 squad is showing some forward thinking. Rilee is one of the best T20 batsmen in the world right now and has been picked despite his past with the Proteas and, as far as I know, not having a domestic side. And Coetzee obviously being picked on potential.

Although for every Rossouw there's a Zondo...

 

[Marius]

Although for every Rossouw there's a Zondo...

Indeed.

 

[StephenZA]

Can anybody explain to me why van Tonder is still not in the SA squad.... never mind dropping Mulder out of the squad.

 

[Heboric]

But this is always the excuse.... and yes Mulder should be in place of Olivier at the very least. The problem is that we would not have to be 'rebuilding' if we started 4/5 years ago, when the writing was on the wall... but kicking the can down the road does nothing either.

Thats CSA's fault, not Harmers. We will be hamstrung by the need for 'squad/team gymnastics'

 

[Marius]

Unfortunately I don't care much about the T20s... great for Rilee. Its nice to see Coetzee in selectors heads, but it worries me to see Coetzee in the T20s, mainly because I don't think T20s is where you learn your skills for Tests and secondly because I don't think he is a T20 style bowler. I would hate for him to get smashed around the park in T20s and lose confidence when its just not his forte. We shall see. I look at the squads and no I don't see a rebuilding attitude I see a lets continue making the poor decisions, even if they are slightly better than 2 years ago.

Who would have been in your squads?

 

[StephenZA]

Thats CSA's fault, not Harmers. We will be hamstrung by the need for 'squad/team gymnastics'

I am not blaming Harmer... it is CSA's fault. But my point when I see Harmer/Olivier in the squad I don't seem CSA building SA cricket future I see them picking players of the 'now' that don't help SA cricket future. And that is harsh on those players, but unfortunately it is the reality we live in.

 

[Marius]

Can anybody explain to me why van Tonder is still not in the SA squad.... never mind dropping Mulder out of the squad.

He had a bad FC season, only averaged 20.