What is the best definition of an all-rounder?

[Migara]

To elaborate on why difference of averages are not a good measure, here are distributions of each.

Batting Averages


Bowling averages

 

[subshakerz]

Jadeja still so underrated. Even by the most strictest definitions he's a genuine all-rounder. Would make the team as a specialist bat or a specialist bowler*

*depending on conditions I guess

He regularly bats at 7/8 in this Indian team, how does he make it as a batsman alone?

 

[subshakerz]

Trundler nailed it in the very first reply, why are people still discussing it

There are players whose overall career numbers don't suggest they're an allrounder, but who have played in the allrounder role for a period of time. Tendulkar in ODIs early in his career for example, or Irfan Pathan when he was briefly trialled at 3.

I agree with him for the most part except I dont see a batsman at no8 or bowler at no6 an all-rounder.

 

[subshakerz]

Don’t really consider Hadlee as an all-rounder tbh. He was a bowler who could bat a bit; like Ashwin.

May be I missed it, but has anyone mentioned Flintoff yet?

Hadlee averaged 33 with the bat and around 22/23 with the ball for the latter half of his career. Ashwin regularly bats at no7 and allows India a five man bowling attack. They are both bowling all rounders.

 

[trundler]

Not normally but guys like Klusener and McMillan played as all rounders.

 

[Chrish]

Hadlee averaged 33 with the bat and around 22/23 with the ball for the latter half of his career. Ashwin regularly bats at no7 and allows India a five man bowling attack. They are both bowling all rounders.

nah that’s pretty loose definition of all-rounder..

 

[subshakerz]

nah that’s pretty loose definition of all-rounder..

I consider them borderline ones.

 

[Chrish]

There would be plenty of “borderline” ones but then there would be no point of the label..

 

[Chrish]

Pure all-rounders ie. someone who can win games consistently by either ball or bat from my time of watching cricket are Jadeja, Kallis and Flintoff. Possibly Shakib too but I haven’t personally seen him much in action.

Kallis wasn’t much of a striker as a bowler but he bowled dozens of overs well and their main bowlers got enough rest so he indirectly contributed to their success.

 

[trundler]

Hadlee won more matches with the bat than Kallis with the ball.

 

[subshakerz]

Pure all-rounders ie. someone who can win games consistently by either ball or bat from my time of watching cricket are Jadeja, Kallis and Flintoff. Possibly Shakib too but I haven’t personally seen him much in action.

Kallis wasn’t much of a striker as a bowler but he bowled dozens of overs well and their main bowlers got enough rest so he indirectly contributed to their success.

Kallis barely won any matches with the ball, much less consistently. He was a reliable support bowler.

Jadeja whose entire career has been spent in the no.7/8 position is hardly a pure all-rounder. He is a classic bowling all-rounder like Imran and Hadlee.

 

[subshakerz]

Not normally but guys like Klusener and McMillan played as all rounders.

SA were really spoilt. Both of those could comfortably bat in the lower order and allowed for many bowling options. If they had a quality spinner that team would be complete.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He regularly bats at 7/8 in this Indian team, how does he make it as a batsman alone?

Don't care where he bats. If he didn't bowl he would be more than good enough to play as a batsman. He's better than half India's top 6

 

[subshakerz]

Don't care where he bats. If he didn't bowl he would be more than good enough to play as a batsman. He's better than half India's top 6

It does matter where he bats. If he was that good as a pure bat he would be able to bat in the top six. The underperforming top order is making him look better than he really is.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It does matter where he bats. If he was that good as a pure bat he would be able to bat in the top six. The underperforming top order is making him look better than he really is.

Neither of these are true

 

[subshakerz]

Neither of these are true

Just because India's batting order is struggling doesnt mean Jadeja is good enough to be selected on batting merit alone and play ahead of Pant in the order. You don't select specialist bats to play at no.7/8 in the lineup which is Jadeja's place. He is good enough to bank on for counterattacking innings and shepherding the tail but not to build your entire innings around against bowlers who are more fresh.

This is not a knock on Jadeja who as a lower order bat does his job quite well but he is not like Botham or Miller who a team can comfortably bat in the top six based on his expected output.

 

[Flem274*]

Pure all-rounders ie. someone who can win games consistently by either ball or bat from my time of watching cricket are Jadeja, Kallis and Flintoff. Possibly Shakib too but I haven’t personally seen him much in action.

Kallis wasn’t much of a striker as a bowler but he bowled dozens of overs well and their main bowlers got enough rest so he indirectly contributed to their success.

Possibly Shakib? ****in hell, hard man to please you are. The guy is probably the most balanced allrounder in the game. Makes his team in both fields, would make every team currently playing (India would play 4 spinners at home if it meant their #5 scored some runs) and has a nice 39 batting and 31 bowling average.

 

[Chrish]

Possibly Shakib? ****in hell, hard man to please you are. The guy is probably the most balanced allrounder in the game. Makes his team in both fields, would make every team currently playing (India would play 4 spinners at home if it meant their #5 scored some runs) and has a nice 39 batting and 31 bowling average.

I meant I haven’t followed BD cricket closely and haven’t seen him in action. His numbers are as good as anyone.

 

[CricAddict]

Just because India's batting order is struggling doesnt mean Jadeja is good enough to be selected on batting merit alone and play ahead of Pant in the order. You don't select specialist bats to play at no.7/8 in the lineup which is Jadeja's place. He is good enough to bank on for counterattacking innings and shepherding the tail but not to build your entire innings around against bowlers who are more fresh.

This is not a knock on Jadeja who as a lower order bat does his job quite well but he is not like Botham or Miller who a team can comfortably bat in the top six based on his expected output.

If Jadeja is in the squad and unable to bowl for some reason, he will still get to play at 7 for India considering his current form against others.

But there is also a good chance that Ashwin will play ahead of him in that case.

 

[CricAddict]

I meant I haven’t followed BD cricket closely and haven’t seen him in action. His numbers are as good as anyone.

Among current players, Shakib is the only one who will get into the team based on only batting or only bowling.

I am not saying Jadeja due to Ashwin's presence.