*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

[Bahnz]

Anyway,

Shame Michael Rippon had a poor Plunket Shield last season (although still better than Bracewell's) or else he could have been the ideal replacement for CDG. Or if they'd picked Nathan Smith in the original 20.

Don't think either would be that ideal tbh. I think Rippon would be underused as a bowler, and Smith isn't nearly a good enough batsman to bat 7 in tests. Imo, if Nicholls is fit, he'll slot back into 5, and Mitchell and Blundell will drop back down to 6 and 7, and they'll bring Wagner or Henry back into the attack. They should persevere with Ajaz, but with Daz's bowling being a definite downgrade from Colin's (particularly now that the bowlers won't have the Lords slope to work with) I think Stead will play it safe.

 

[Bahnz]

Crowe wasn't allergic to scoring runs away and was definitely a greater batsman than Williamson.

I'd say Crowe 85-94 just shades Williamson 2012-2021, but it's very close. Williamson had some fine hours away from home during that period, making vital contributions in SL in 2012, WI and UAE in 2014, England and Australia in 2015, UAE in 2018 and England in 2021. Struggled in India and SA, but overall his frailties away from home are I think overstated.

 

[Skyliner]

Mullet out of the tour. No loss at all. Anyone with a dozy attitude can sod off. At the moment that would be half the team, they seem to mentally go on strike if they aren’t playing at Hagley. Newsflash: some pitches will be a touch slow, others will take turn etc. You can’t play in your ultimate ideal pitch conditions every test. These guys even whinge about the Bay Oval deck. Then apparently Lords was ‘slow’ and ‘not easy’. Give me a break. Flat track bullies who seem to get softer by the day.

The ‘nice guy’ NZ coaching set up that dispenses cuddles and mildness in great dollops needs to either grow a pair, or be replaced.

 

[NZTailender]

I'd say Crowe 85-94 just shades Williamson 2012-2021, but it's very close. Williamson had some fine hours away from home during that period, making vital contributions in SL in 2012, WI and UAE in 2014, England and Australia in 2015, UAE in 2018 and England in 2021. Struggled in India and SA, but overall his frailties away from home are I think overstated.

Fun fact: he averages 29 in England over 7 tests played there.

In my mind I feel like he does a lot better against England than any other team and yet it's actually the team he's done his absolute worse against.

Conclusion: Kane sux at the moving ball in English conditions

 

[Bahnz]

Mullet out of the tour. No loss at all. Anyone with a dozy attitude can sod off.

As noted previously, NZ would've been finished by the end of day 1 if Colin hadn't managed to somewhat rescue the first innings and dismiss England's best player. His presence is vital to balancing the side and he absolutely is a huge loss. In particular the absence of his tidy medium pacers make it much less likely that the selectors will gamble on a spinner or a fast bowler.

 

[Bahnz]

Fun fact: he averages 29 in England over 7 tests played there.

In my mind I feel like he does a lot better against England than any other team and yet it's actually the team he's done his absolute worse against.

Conclusion: Kane sux at the moving ball in English conditions

Indeed. Of course one can always nitpick the numbers. In 2013 Kane was still a year away from really making it and NZ were heavily outgunned by what was at that point still a pretty strong England side. In 2015 he made his century at Lords' and really looked fantastic. In 2021 he was already struggling with his elbow injury and still managed to top score in the WTC final. And now he's just coming back to tests after a 9 month layoff. But yes, overall his returns in England have been poor.

 

[SteveNZ]

Fun fact: he averages 29 in England over 7 tests played there.

In my mind I feel like he does a lot better against England than any other team and yet it's actually the team he's done his absolute worse against.

Conclusion: Kane sux at the moving ball in English conditions

It's an interesting one, isn't it. Kane's play it very late approach just doesn't seem to have translated into success in England at all. I haven't seen the stats but he seems to nick off a huge amount in that part of the world - seemingly a lot trying to play that back foot punch he loves so much.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Damn imagine being someone who barely shows up and when they do just whinges constantly.

 

[Flem274*]

Crowe wasn't allergic to scoring runs away and was definitely a greater batsman than Williamson.

Your 2018 pantsing at home from Big Daddy was 4 years ago. It's time to move on.

 

[trundler]

Your 2018 pantsing at home from Big Daddy was 4 years ago. It's time to move on.

Even Warner has runs in the UAE. Besides one good series on the slowest pitches in the world, Kane has a handful of good knocks away. He's not even Sehwag away, much less Crowe. He's more like Yousuf or Warner. I can't believe this is controversial. Muh pretty drives.

 

[Flem274*]

Even Warner has runs in the UAE. Besides one good series on the slowest pitches in the world, Kane has a handful of good knocks away. He's not even Sehwag away, much less Crowe. He's more like Yousuf or Warner. I can't believe this is controversial. Muh pretty drives.

"he's really bad if you take out all his runs"

has more success in aus from less chances fwiw. is he flawed? sure. is he the next coming of mahela? no. i think he has centuries in almost all countries bar SA.

but if you want to pick an extreme end of the argument to live on then by all means.

 

[Bahnz]

Even Warner has runs in the UAE. Besides one good series on the slowest pitches in the world, Kane has a handful of good knocks away. He's not even Sehwag away, much less Crowe. He's more like Yousuf or Warner. I can't believe this is controversial. Muh pretty drives.

Crowe and Williamson's away records are pretty similar, both averaging 42/43. The difference is Williamson has been a Smith-tier bat on home-soil while Crowe was only very good. Of course Crowe does have a better record than KW in Australia and England, but the difference in their away records is a lot more marginal than you're making it out to be.

 

[trundler]

"he's really bad if you take out all his runs"

has more success in aus from less chances fwiw. is he flawed? sure. is he the next coming of mahela? no. i think he has centuries in almost all countries bar SA.

but if you want to pick an extreme end of the argument to live on then by all means.

No I said he has one good series where literally everyone has good series. Unless you're suggesting David Warner is no longer the greatest HTB going around because he has runs in the UAE. Oh and Williamson scored runs in a high scoring draw in Australia. Whoop de doo. I think his failings away are understated more than anything. Even in England where he spoke theoretically be dynamite, he's been fairly underwhelming. He's past the point where you look at one good knock and say he's got potential surely. He averages 3 runs fewer away than Yousuf. I remember some people putting him above Rahul ****ing Dravid a few years ago here. Madness.

 

[trundler]

Crowe and Williamson's away records are pretty similar, both averaging 42/43. The difference is Williamson has been a Smith-tier bat on home-soil while Crowe was only very good. Of course Crowe does have a better record than KW in Australia and England, but the difference in their away records is a lot more marginal than you're making it out to be.

****ed knees bring Crowe's final numbers down, no? KW is supposed to be in his prime. Besides, Crowe tamed the 2 Ws's reverse back when no one had a clue. Crowe still better IMO.

 

[Bahnz]

No I said he has one good series where literally everyone has good series. Unless you're suggesting David Warner is no longer the greatest HTB going around because he has runs in the UAE. Oh and Williamson scored runs in a high scoring draw in Australia. Whoop de doo. I think his failings away are understated more than anything. Even in England where he spoke theoretically be dynamite, he's been fairly underwhelming. He's past the point where you look at one good knock and say he's got potential surely. He averages 3 runs fewer away than Yousuf. I remember some people putting him above Rahul ****ing Dravid a few years ago here. Madness.

Didn't he also score a 190 and average 50 in the 2014 tour to the Emirates? And it wasn't just 1 hundred in the 2015 Aus tour, I think he averaged like 75 on that tour?

 

[Flem274*]

the same pitches kohli is (rightly) praised for scoring on.

but let's not let this get in the way of his grinding axe

 

[Bahnz]

****ed knees bring Crowe's final numbers down, no? KW is supposed to be in his prime. Besides, Crowe tamed the 2 Ws's reverse back when no one had a clue. Crowe still better IMO.

The knee injuries really only impeded the last year of Crowe's career, 6 tests in SA and India where he averaged about 20. Williamson's elbow has been a similarly serious issue that has affected his numbers in his last 4 tests in England and India, where he's averaged about 25. Equally, both players were debuted young and took 3-4 years to really find their feet at international level, and their records suffered for it.

 

[trundler]

the same pitches kohli is (rightly) praised for scoring on.

but let's not let this get in the way of his grinding axe

Those were incredibly flat pitches and pretty much bottom of the list in terms of achievements for Smith and Kohli. I mean, yeah it was a good performance but he has equally often gone missing when it's just been a tad harder in Australia. And he should be good in SA and England but isn't. Kane's away record leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[NZTailender]

"he's really bad if you take out all his runs"

has more success in aus from less chances fwiw. is he flawed? sure. is he the next coming of mahela? no. i think he has centuries in almost all countries bar SA.

but if you want to pick an extreme end of the argument to live on then by all means.

idk man. cherry picking stats is a bit of a fools errand but if you look at the more traditionally strong sides we've played you can see Crowe is head and shoulders above the rest when playing away from home.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Crowes drops 2 points if we include the WIndies who were worlds best at the time, whilst everyone elses averages go up because they've feasted on the more recent weakIndies

When comparing Taylor and Williamson most people say Taylor feasted too much on weak sides at home yet his away average vs top quality teams is a bit below Kane's.

 

[Flem274*]

idk man. cherry picking stats is a bit of a fools errand but if you look at the more traditionally strong sides we've played you can see Crowe is head and shoulders above the rest when playing away from home.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Crowes drops 2 points if we include the WIndies who were worlds best at the time, whilst everyone elses averages go up because they've feasted on the more recent weakIndies

When comparing Taylor and Williamson most people say Taylor feasted too much on weak sides at home yet his away average vs top quality teams is a bit below Kane's.

i don't really mind people thinking crowe was better or closer, im rolling my eyes at trundler's desperation to look edgy and probable salt.