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*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

trundler

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82 tests over 13 years back in the days when only one England player made it to 100 tests wasn't too shabby.
No, certainly not but he was dropped after the first test for a years and in effect had a career of about a decade. Most of the top blokes usually suffer a big dip after that point and their average starts looking a lot less impressive. I might be alone on this hill but yeah, Barrington loses out on longevity points compared to Boycs and Hutton. Great player and an Ashes hero though. Worthy to keep in mind that England played far more tests even in those days compared to others.
 

greg

International Debutant
As a NZ fan so happy to see Jamieson back to his best. This is an excellent piece of cricket writing.

They're saying farewell to Mark Taylor - a shame I enjoyed his analysis and rapport with his old opponents Atherton & Hussein.

I like to think that foreign commentators love being offered commentary gigs on English TV because it really gives them an opportunity to showcase their knowledge and ability. Not saying you don’t get the same elsewhere (windies, Safrica?) bit when the staple is IPL or being a home Aussie commentator…
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well that was fun I was doing other stuff, but kept up, with it. Nice to not get too stressed for once.

Root is by far the best Middle-order England bat I've seen for England, particularly if you bring all forms into it. Boycs is a very complicated one, and I didn't see it all, like KP forever mired in his off-the-field nonsense, so hard to be dispassionate about him.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
England positives

Root, Foakes, Potts, Broad, Anderson

Middling Stokes, Crawley (just!), Parkinson

Negatives Lees, Pope, Bairstow

They'll go unchanged for the next test.

I would like to see Crawley at three but can't see it happening somehow
Crawley negative for me, his one attribute should be to go on, he couldn't even do that, both dismissals were shite.

I think I can live down to Uppercut's view of me, by actually seeing a negative in this great win. That we won't make the wholesale batting changes this side desperately needs. In fact I think Lee's performance was better and put him in middling, at least wore the bowlers down a bit, may have helped Stokes, Foakes and Root in the end.

Agree with putting Stokes in middling, that innings was pivotal I guess, but bloody hell it was lucky. I guess he and B-Mac have come up with this idea to charge top-class pacemen, and CDG, but fFS put that idea back in the box, not like he hasn't myriad of other ways to score runs.
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
I always place him behind Boycott, Compton, Barrington and Pietersen. But he might be squeezing up a little. :detective
I think he has a superior record already to Boycs and Compton more runs at a similar average I know Boycott was an opener and played a different role but we are talking about a better batsman without looking in to roles so root clearly ahead with more runs better SR and a higher average.

KP is my all time favourite England batsman but I think part of KP charm was he was one of the very few that could play a mind boggling knock out of no where in any conditions against any attack on any stage his consistency was little below what you want from the very elite batters , Barrington maybe has the strongest case over Root but I don't see many england fans talk him up the likes of Compton or Cowdrey seem to be more fondly remembered so I will stick to Root @ 5 for now.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Given Boycott getting so many shouts surprised Cook isn't really. Scored runs basically everywhere in some massive series wins. Suppose average is a touch lower
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
Also till couple of years back in regards to fab 4 it was Smith Kohli, Kane and also Root. Joe was seen a step or two below the other 3 now it's changed Smith is still clear # 1 after him it's any order you decide it works fine .
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Given Boycott getting so many shouts surprised Cook isn't really. Scored runs basically everywhere in some massive series wins. Suppose average is a touch lower
Think Cook has just played at a time that's a bit better for batting, but let's face it Barrington, Cook and Boycs probably talked down as they weren't great to watch. Barrington probably the worst of these TBH, always talked down compared to classical players like Hobbs and Hammond, and explosive hitters like KP and Compton.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
The doom and gloom days are back, baby!

After we climbed our Everest last year, this Test side has lost its guts. And the signs ahead don't look all that rosy, either.

We got accused of being the biggest whingers per head of population, so I won't go into it. But fair to say this side has a few struggles ahead of it if it can't fix the fact neither opening bat can score runs v major opposition, the bowlers are getting older, and three series' in a row we've lost Tests because we failed to win the big moments and/or get up for the contest.
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
Think Cook has just played at a time that's a bit better for batting, but let's face it Barrington, Cook and Boycs probably talked down as they weren't great to watch. Barrington probably the worst of these TBH, always talked down compared to classical players like Hobbs and Hammond, and explosive hitters like KP and Compton.
I guess on the cook v boycott debate, cook didn't decide to skip tours when he knew he was off to face cummins, starc and hazlewood.
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
also not buying boycott faced better attacks on the whole. off the top of my head cook faced better indian, pakistani and kiwi attacks. south africa not sure, would need to see who boycs went up against.

cook faced inferior west indian attacks and at worst equal quality aussie attacks at their best.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I guess on the cook v boycott debate, cook didn't decide to skip tours when he knew he was off to face cummins, starc and hazlewood.
Yeah, and there's playing on lifeless subcontinent pitches, but he famously only played about 8 games there near the end of his career, and Oz teams devoid of stars at times, but hey facing Lillee-Thomson-Garner-Holding etc. at their peak on dodgy pitches possibly wasn't fun. he didn't get to fill his boots againgst Banglas or Zim either, I'm sure he'd have batted for days. Grudgingly you have to say he was pretty good, the miserable old ****.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
also not buying boycott faced better attacks on the whole. off the top of my head cook faced better indian, pakistani and kiwi attacks. south africa not sure, would need to see who boycs went up against.

cook faced inferior west indian attacks and at worst equal quality aussie attacks at their best.
Well I've partly replied to that, but obviously Boycs only played one series against South Africa, well official anyway. Kiwi pitches were pretty tough to play on come the end. But apart from Oz and Windies his away records are pretty sparse for various reasons.
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
Yeah, and there's playing on lifeless subcontinent pitches, but he famously only played about 8 games there near the end of his career, and Oz teams devoid of stars at times, but hey facing Lillee-Thomson-Garner-Holding etc. at their peak on dodgy pitches possibly wasn't fun. he didn't get to fill his boots againgst Banglas or Zim either, I'm sure he'd have batted for days. Grudgingly you have to say he was pretty good, the miserable old ****.
deffo not doubting his quality for a minute. if anything he is unfortunate to be born in a nation that produced hobbs, sutcliffe and hutton which might hurt his overall rating.

I'm just not particularly sure he faced harder conditions and bowlers than cook.

guess that was a jibe at cook playing tons on the sub continent but not sure outside of sehwag there was ever a better player of spin who opened the batting.

eh I'll stop derailing.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Boycs pulled out of Test Cricket after the First Test of 1974 with a stack of runs on offer in the remaining five Tests against India and Pakistan. Even David Lloyd looked like a Test batsman after replacing him. It’s convenient to make up reasons he pulled out of the Ashes tour because of the way it unfolded. But it ignores the fact that Lillee had barely played for 18 months and most people had barely heard of Thomson.
He was so terrified of fast bowling that he played back to back series against Holding, Roberts, Garner and Croft at the age of 40.
 

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