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*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

F

Flametree

International 12th Man
Xuhaib said:
Is Root an all time england top 5 batter already.
My list
Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Sutcliffe

Can't think of anyone else before Root tbh.
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Compton on reputation, Barrington on numbers. Dexter and May close. Boycott for being an opener. But he's very much in that picture.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
straw man said:
The post-mortem for NZ is the same as it was for the lacklustre home summer with those Bangladesh and South Africa losses. Counter to the usual NZ narrative, the team is currently less than the sum of its parts and is often better on paper than it is on the field. This is an excellent playing XI and was for the home summer too, but is sputtering and failing to put out consistently good performances.

We focus on a few surface-level issues like the tail batting like idiots (home summer) and not bowling a spinner, but when you're not getting the most out of your best players, have to look at leadership.

Not an anti-Williamson post but him missing so much cricket injured in the home summer, going to the IPL and playing for the basket-case Sunrisers (when their basket-case-ness seems to be partly Williamson's doing), then rocking up to England without much of a warmup and without much time to bring the team together... that can't help. His form's also been woeful for quite a while - too much on his plate? Would love it if he would give up the IPL, but that seems unlikely.

Not an anti-Latham post either but he captained the five tests prior to this one, we capitulated with the bat in three of those and lost - a return to the bad old days of the match-losing lollapse. We also seemed to lack a Plan B with the ball if the new ball seam attack didn't knock the opposition over. Tbh we looked more focused this match with Williamson back in charge, just batted woefully.

Williamson and Latham are two of our most vital players and aren't going anywhere. Suggest what could really help Williamson (and Latham) would be a coach that challenges him and provides new impetus. Results have fallen away and wonder if the team is getting a little stale under Stead - he's been in the job nearly four years. Quite conversative, probably a similar temperament to Williamson, a coach with a different style might add something. The hard part would be to find someone good that wants the job, of course.
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When does Stead's contract end? 2023 WC?
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
straw man said:
Does he want the job? Probably, but NZC may have snoozed on that one and therefore losed, at least until Malan's done a couple of years with Ireland.
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Yes, they probably took the small town boomer's view of it and thought "what Heinrich got fron KJ was handy, but how about Canterbury's trophy case lately, via Will Williams and Fraser Sheat...".

That aversion deep within the 'flexhumility' psyche of NZ to falling in behind a South African dude with no shortage of pep and aspiration and monumentalism to his nature. Lots of Americany sports science retweets, and so on. I'd hope it would happen further down the line, but I'm really not sure it will.
 
jcas0167

jcas0167

International Debutant
Kippax said:
Yes, they probably took the small town boomer's view of it thought "what Heinirch got fron KJ was handy, but how about Canterbury's trophy case lately, via Will Williams and Fraser Sheat...".

That aversion deep within the 'flexhumility' psyche of NZ to falling in behind a South African dude with no shortage of pep and aspiration and monumentalism to his nature. Lots of Americany sports science retweets, and so on. I'd hope it would happen further down the line, but I'm really not sure it will.
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Malan was added to the coaching group for the tests in England last year so must be seen as having some upside. Hard to escape the feeling though that they would plump for the likes of Peter Fulton when Stead moves on.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Kippax said:
Yes, they probably took the small town boomer's view of it and thought "what Heinrich got fron KJ was handy, but how about Canterbury's trophy case lately, via Will Williams and Fraser Sheat...".

That aversion deep within the 'flexhumility' psyche of NZ to falling in behind a South African dude with no shortage of pep and aspiration and monumentalism to his nature. Lots of Americany sports science retweets, and so on. I'd hope it would happen further down the line, but I'm really not sure it will.
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This is a very Kippax post. I don't particularly care how someone like Malan might provide a new approach to Williamson and co, just that they are a good coach - clear that the CD players in the NZ side think he is. So even if we have to suffer through some American motivational blather (but then top-level sports people are a special breed and I am not one), it may be worth it.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
GIMH said:
Yeah there are few opinions I value more than LT round here on English cricket but Root miles clear of KP for me
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Yup, Great batsman > Player of great innings and all that.

I remember a couple of years ago there was a thread about England's greatest post WW2 XI. At the time, I thought that Root's diminishing returns since becoming captain excluded him from that side. Looking back, that all began to change in SL, and it would just be perverse to hold that view now. Another 5+ years of Root without the burden of captaincy should be something to treasure.

I'm not very good at ranking individual innings nowadays, but this must be one of his finest.
 
trundler

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Best since Boycs and potentially Sir Len. That's a stellar career. Fitting too as all 3 no doubt have questions to answer.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
GIMH said:
Yeah there are few opinions I value more than LT round here on English cricket but Root miles clear of KP for me
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Yeah I used to think he's only level at best with KP a few years ago. Safe to say the last two years have shut me up. He's way ahead now.
 
trundler

trundler

Request Your Custom Title Now!
He's one or two tests away from surpassing YK and SMG. Hopefully gets his average over 50 in the process.
 
ImpatientLime

ImpatientLime

International Regular
trundler said:
Well ahead of KP too surely. Barrington played in a fairly flat era and had a pretty short career. Great player too though and did well in Ashes tests where Root has suffered.
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yeah totally clear of KP. KP had a ceiling higher than any English batsman I think any of us have seen. 2012 alone he put up three of the great modern innings but he just didn't have the consistency to match his undoubted genius.
 
Gremlin

Gremlin

U19 Vice-Captain
England positives

Root, Foakes, Potts, Broad, Anderson

Middling Stokes, Crawley (just!), Parkinson

Negatives Lees, Pope, Bairstow

They'll go unchanged for the next test.

I would like to see Crawley at three but can't see it happening somehow
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Amazing from Root. Well done England. Feel Stokes' knock should not be passed over when looking at key contributions here. A very enjoyable although very short test. :)
 
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