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Jacques Kallis vs Steve Waugh

Who was the greater test batsman?

  • Jacques Kallis

    Votes: 34 61.8%

  • Steve Waugh

    Votes: 21 38.2%
  • Total voters
    55
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
Waugh. And by a smidgen. Him and McGrath were the difference between us (the WI) and Australia in the 90s. Waugh faced up consistent to atg attacks vs Pak, WI, Rsa. Kallis didn't imo face as many challenging attacks as consistently.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Wow, look what you wrote, how can you still think Kallis played better attacks? Waugh's opponents were so much superior. You forgot Waugh played Shoaib, Murali and Saqlain as well. As well as Mushtaq Ahmed in his world class phase.

By the way, Kallis feasted on Zimbabwe and Bangladesh much more than Waugh did. Sri Lanka weren't minnow level. Once you take those teams away, Waugh and Kallis are closer. Once you factor in the better attacks Waugh faced, it is clear he is superior.
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The averages don't lie.
 
C

Calm_profit

State Vice-Captain
Kirkut said:
Dravid's an ATG too and overall a better batsman than Steve Waugh. Sure he got majority of his runs in 2000s but those twin fifties at Sabina Park and his batting masterclass against an ATG English attack in 2011 are sample sizes big enough to warrant him getting runs against top attacks of 80s and 90s had he batted against them.
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And also Dravid did well at overseas in 1990's except Australia.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Kirkut said:
Dravid's an ATG too and overall a better batsman than Steve Waugh. Sure he got majority of his runs in 2000s but those twin fifties at Sabina Park and his batting masterclass against an ATG English attack in 2011 are sample sizes big enough to warrant him getting runs against top attacks of 80s and 90s had he batted against them.
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Dravid is better than Kallis but not Waugh level. I tend not to rate accumulators as highly as batsmen who can counterattack.

Waugh simply delivered at so many key big match moments against quality opposition and in tough conditions. Dravids two fifties at Sabina Park were terrific but cant compare with Waugh's two tons on a damp wicket at Old Trafford in 1997 that turned that Ashes around. Or his 200 against Ambrose and Walsh that ended WI's reign. Or his 160 against Donald and Pollock in SA when he batted an entire day without losing his wicket. The guy simply picked the toughest challenges and delivered.

Waugh was along with Tendulkar the best batsman of the 90s. Dravid would be lucky to make the top three in the 2000s when batting was far easier.
 
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Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
subshakerz said:
Dravid is better than Kallis but not Waugh level. I tend not to rate accumulators as highly as batsmen who can counterattack.

Waugh simply delivered at so many key big match moments against quality opposition and in tough conditions. Dravids two fifties at Sabina Park were terrific but cant compare with Waugh's two tons on a damp wicket at Old Trafford in 1997 that turned that Ashes around. Or his 200 against Ambrose and Walsh that ended WI's reign. Or his 160 against Donald and Pollock in SA when he batted an entire day without losing his wicket. The guy delivered picked the toughest challenges and delivered.

Waugh was along with Tendulkar the best batsman of the 90s. Dravid would be lucky to make the top three in the 2000s when batting was far easier.
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I might also add that when Waugh debuted he was facing WI who still had the likes of Marshall and Patterson not to mention Walsh and Ambrose. Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Mustaq and Imran, NZ Hadlee, etc. He struggled early on, but who wouldn't facing those caliber of bowlers. When he came good in thr 90s, he was still facing high caliber bowlers and he did exceedingly well. Kallis did well too, overall but A. He didn't face that quality of bowling as consistently and B. I can't think of many quality knocks or series where he had a memorable performance; let alone vs as high a quality in bowling. Oh and he feasted on the minnows ( WI post 2000, Ban and Zim) as he should.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Slifer said:
I might also add that when Waugh debuted he was facing WI who still had the likes of Marshall and Patterson not to mention Walsh and Ambrose. Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Mustaq and Imran, NZ Hadlee, etc. He struggled early on, but who wouldn't facing those caliber of bowlers. When he came good in thr 90s, he was still facing high caliber bowlers and he did exceedingly well. Kallis did well too, overall but A. He didn't face that quality of bowling as consistently and B. I can't think of many quality knocks or series where he had a memorable performance; let alone vs as high a quality in bowling. Oh and he feasted on the minnows ( WI post 2000, Ban and Zim) as he should.
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Yeah, the lack of standout knocks is one of my big issues with Kallis. His best knock was in 97 when he saves a game with a ton against Australia and that was at the start of his career. But really, no innings of note in 166 matches? At least Dravid has a few.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Maybe they do because there is no way Kallis faced better attacks except Australia.
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Waugh never placed peak Murali or peak Warne, or peak Saqlain for that matter. He only faced Kumble at his best. And that didn't go well. So Kallis played far better spin attacks than Waugh. It's all ound, pace, swing, off break, leg break every thing. So there is no way Waugh placed superior attacks than Kallis.
 
C

Calm_profit

State Vice-Captain
Migara said:
Waugh never placed peak Murali or peak Warne, or peak Saqlain for that matter. He only faced Kumble at his best. And that didn't go well. So Kallis played far better spin attacks than Waugh. It's all ound, pace, swing, off break, leg break every thing. So there is no way Waugh placed superior attacks than Kallis.
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Waugh played Kumble well especially in that one test in 1996 at Kotla (Delhi) which is Kumble's fortress where others Aussie batters struggled to score a 50.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Slifer said:
Waugh in matches facing the only peak spinner of his time : https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...er_involve=1973;template=results;type=batting

Smh. As if he didn't face Murali, Saqlain, Mustaq and Vettori etc
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He played Murali pre-doosra era. Nothing after 1999 where he actually developed the ball. And played Saqlain when he was green and post knee injury. Only a single match at his peak (which he did well).

Kallis played best of the two greatest spinners of the test history at their peaks, and Waugh did not. That makes his range of attacks more rounded.

(I am not sure what Vettori is doing in this discussion)
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
I think Kallis could have dominated a lot more if he wanted to. Had all the shots and without checking, I suspect his SR in the last 2 to 3 years must be significantly higher than the career SR.

Can't chose between the two
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
Migara said:
He played Murali pre-doosra era. Nothing after 1999 where he actually developed the ball. And played Saqlain when he was green and post knee injury. Only a single match at his peak (which he did well).

Kallis played best of the two greatest spinners of the test history at their peaks, and Waugh did not. That makes his range of attacks more rounded.

(I am not sure what Vettori is doing in this discussion)
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No it doesn't. He simply didn't face Warne. As usual shifting goal posts when it doesn't suit your absurd arguments. You said he struggled vs Kumble, that was false. No one cares if Murali had a doosra or not, fact is Waugh faced him and had varying degrees of success/failures. And with all due respect, sometimes you need to do a little research before listing off bowlers people faced. For example for Kallis he faced Bond in all of one test.

Waugh faced better attacks and enough spin and did amazing.

Ps About Vetorri. He is yet another quality spinner who Waugh had success against. I don't consider him quality but I know you do....??
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Migara said:
Waugh never placed peak Murali or peak Warne, or peak Saqlain for that matter. He only faced Kumble at his best. And that didn't go well. So Kallis played far better spin attacks than Waugh. It's all ound, pace, swing, off break, leg break every thing. So there is no way Waugh placed superior attacks than Kallis.
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Waugh faced Saqlain in 99 and 2003. So again you are wrong. And as for pace, it is not even close.
 
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