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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Bracewell had a pretty rubbish season as well, though not as bad as Duffy's I think. I'm usually pretty much the opposite of nzfan's "give the young guns a go" attitude, but I would've been tempted to give Nathan Smith a go given his standout season for Wellington, his ability to swing the ball both ways and his potential to offer some handy runs at number 9.
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Duffy has an absolutely rank season about once out of every third season.

He doesn't have a bowling action he can rely on. Therefore there is no way a player with this fault can be relied on at a higher level.

So, why even bother even in a 'just a body on the field' while the IPL players aren't there context. He's had about 2 months off. What will he turn up in England as? The 6 foot 4 fast out-swinger? Or the crumpled-kneed 6 foot 4 midget medium pacer?
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
As for Bracewell - he didn't have a great FC season but he had success in the other formats which led to him missing the end of the FC season. So, it is murkier to dispute his selection.

I don't have a problem with it.

As an allrounder he was at least good in his 3 x formats x 2 disciplines - in 3 of the 6.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Immenso said:
As for Bracewell - he didn't have a great FC season but he had success in the other formats which led to him missing the end of the FC season. So, it is murkier to dispute his selection.

I don't have a problem with it.

As an allrounder he was at least good in his 3 x formats x 2 disciplines - in 3 of the 6.
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Would still prefer G Phillips instead of Macewell.
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Immenso said:
As for Bracewell - he didn't have a great FC season but he had success in the other formats which led to him missing the end of the FC season. So, it is murkier to dispute his selection.

I don't have a problem with it.

As an allrounder he was at least good in his 3 x formats x 2 disciplines - in 3 of the 6.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure he didn't have a good one day or red ball season. His numbers overall and recent just doesn't warrant selection for one day or red ball cricket for NZ. The same wouldn't be said about a younger player is what my qualms are. I'd be rather tolerant with younger players having a bit of a dip than older ones. Still happy for him though, he's been around the circuit for ages and hope he goes well. Just don't want to see him play couple of county games and then not make the squad or make the squad and then by the time the next series comes by he's cut. That is my problem... inconsistency in selections without giving players reasonable run.

Given the PS and one day cricket doesn't have TV coverage but super smash does you will generally only remember players that have done well in super smash unless you closely follow ford and PS. I think the players know that too for a long time now. Having a very good t20 does make a difference as against say ford trophy or PS.
 
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Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Despite some of their FC performances I understand Duffy and Tickner. They're both bowlers who will be very good if/when they click.

Michael Bracewell has never been much of a FC batsman though and he was the second worst batsmen in the Shield last season (behind Georgeson), scoring 190 @ 19 from 5 matches. I don't think Larsen selects based on Shield results at all, just who he personally thinks is good.

It's strange because while Bracewell is capable of contributing to a FC side, he doesn't impress the eye test at all like Will Young did when he specialised in scoring 40s. This isn't the first time he's been selected out of the blue either - John Wright was a fan.

Maybe we're cantankerous for whinging about the 20th best player in the squad but I think it was a missed opportunity to take top run scorer Bruce, impressive young player Phillips or even redemption arc O'Donnell on tour for the warm up games.

Oh and Dane Cleaver is being robbed blind here. He's better on batting alone than Bracewell (and Fletcher), and is a proper keeper.
 
Immenso

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Yeah, I forgot about Phillips. But he's IPL anyway. The whole reason Bracewell is there is to cover the IPL players during the warm-ups. Right?
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Even if Sunrisers agreed to let him go, the England in May assignment seems a bit ropey for getting Phillips back in the Test mix. One of the more unconvincing players of full swing bowling (of those with say a 36-40 first-class average) the country has had in a while.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
That's all fair enough but we're not assessing the 20th player by whether he is ready for England but by whether he is a better player than Michael "averages 33 in FC and 19 last season" Bracewell. It's not just Glenn Phillips - literally almost any FC batsman deserves to be there more.

If this was a T20 series then sure take him along, he's been very good for Wellington. I'm hoping he's just there now to save a later flight for the European tour for him tbh.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
Flem274* said:
Despite some of their FC performances I understand Duffy and Tickner. They're both bowlers who will be very good if/when they click.

Michael Bracewell has never been much of a FC batsman though and he was the second worst batsmen in the Shield last season (behind Georgeson), scoring 190 @ 19 from 5 matches. I don't think Larsen selects based on Shield results at all, just who he personally thinks is good.

It's strange because while Bracewell is capable of contributing to a FC side, he doesn't impress the eye test at all like Will Young did when he specialised in scoring 40s. This isn't the first time he's been selected out of the blue either - John Wright was a fan.

Maybe we're cantankerous for whinging about the 20th best player in the squad but I think it was a missed opportunity to take top run scorer Bruce, impressive young player Phillips or even redemption arc O'Donnell on tour for the warm up games.

Oh and Dane Cleaver is being robbed blind here. He's better on batting alone than Bracewell (and Fletcher), and is a proper keeper.
Click to expand...
Tickner I don't really have a problem with. He's put up pretty consistent numbers in the past few seasons (even if he has been expensive at times), and his into the wicket, faster-than-the-average PS trundler style makes him a decent back-up option for Wagner. But Duffy averaged 55 in the PS, and fewer than 2 wpm. I just don't see how that can be the basis for a squad call-up.

I don't really mind the rest of the squad, but Macewell and Duffy really stand out as wtf calls.
 
V

vandem

State Captain
jcas0167 said:
Phillips and Simon Keene (OK, more realistically Nathan Smith).
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Phillips at IPL, will miss both test warmup FC games, so instead of 3 weeks sitting on the bench for test series (ahead of Mitchell? Ravindra?) it is better to bring him back to NZ for a break, then to Ireland / Scotland for white ball stuff.

I think Guptill and Chapman are the only 2021-22 white-ball squad batters who aren't either in IPL or in the test tour 20, and Macewell ahead of these two is plausible. I don't think much point sending a non-white ball batter (R O'Donnell? McClure?) for two weeks for 1 or 2 FC games.

Stead's "no player will be on tour for all 14 weeks" comment means that Nathan Smith should get his chance in 2nd part of the tour.
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
vandem said:
Phillips at IPL, will miss both test warmup FC games, so instead of 3 weeks sitting on the bench for test series (ahead of Mitchell? Ravindra?) it is better to bring him back to NZ for a break, then to Ireland / Scotland for white ball stuff.

I think Guptill and Chapman are the only 2021-22 white-ball squad batters who aren't either in IPL or in the test tour 20, and Macewell ahead of these two is plausible. I don't think much point sending a non-white ball batter (R O'Donnell? McClure?) for two weeks for 1 or 2 FC games.

Stead's "no player will be on tour for all 14 weeks" comment means that Nathan Smith should get his chance in 2nd part of the tour.
Click to expand...
I'd rather send a non white ball player than a white ball player that may not come close to making the test team particularly if you're over 30+ Why would you lose such a good opportunity to bred a young player. Don't just look at the games, the trainings, the trainers, high level of coaching all helps. Why waste it on a white ball player?
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Probably because Ravindra has fallen a little bit in their estimations. Too fake and too ghey. They've got another WTC series at the end of the year where CdG can't really bat at 6 for them (Pakistan away), Somerville was very bland in India, so they now want Macewell to get that big mit to give it a rip.
 
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