The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[jayjay]

Ok, let's do a saffers XI, they were the best non Aussie side in the 00s and early 10s, so there's a lot to go on. Not to mention how good they were in the 90s as well.

As always, keeping with my inclusion criteria - 25 tests or 50 ODIs.

All Time Test XI:
1.G. Smith c
2. G. Kirsten
3. H. Amla
4. AB de Villiers
5. J. Kallis ao
6. D. Nourse
7. M. Boucher wk
8. V. Philander
9. A. Donald
10. D. Steyn
11. H. Tayfield

All Time ODI XI:
1. G. Smith c
2. H. Gibbs
3. H. Amla
4. AB de Villiers
5. F. du Plessis
6. Q. de Kock wk
7. L. Klusener ao
8. S. Pollock ao
9. I. Tahir
10. A. Donald
11. M. Ntini

 

[CricAddict]

Ok, let's do a saffers XI, they were the best non Aussie side in the 00s and early 10s, so there's a lot to go on. Not to mention how good they were in the 90s as well.

As always, keeping with my inclusion criteria - 25 tests or 50 ODIs.

All Time Test XI:
1.G. Smith c
2. G. Kirsten
3. H. Amla
4. AB de Villiers
5. J. Kallis ao
6. D. Nourse
7. M. Boucher wk
8. V. Philander
9. A. Donald
10. D. Steyn
11. H. Tayfield

All Time ODI XI:
1. G. Smith c
2. H. Gibbs
3. H. Amla
4. AB de Villiers
5. F. du Plessis
6. Q. de Kock wk
7. L. Klusener ao
8. S. Pollock ao
9. I. Tahir
10. A. Donald
11. M. Ntini

Yeah SA team with their all-round depth are quite good.

I will have Pollock and Kallis in both teams. Instead of Philander in test and Gibbs/Ntini in odis.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Pollock should obviously be in both teams. Philander over Pollock is bizarre.

But Kallis shouldn't be near an ODI team

 

[jayjay]

Pollock should obviously be in both teams. Philander over Pollock is bizarre.

But Kallis shouldn't be near an ODI team

Philander was a great bowler and the perfect foil for the faster men, plus it's not like SA need batting all the way down to 8. But Pollock could easily have an argument to be in the side, as could a couple of other names. That's just how much depth there is.

 

[HookShot]

Just dusted off a book published in 1987 called ‘The Top 100 Australian Cricketers & the Best Eleven of all Time’ just see what the zeitgeist was 25 years ago.

The Best Eleven that the author (Philip Derriman) came up with was, in batting order…

01. Bob Simpson
02. Sid Barnes
03. Don Bradman
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Alan Davidson
07. Don Tallon
08. Dennis Lillee
09. Clarrie Grimmett
10. Fred Spofforth
11. Bill O’Reilly


The author also asked several other players and writers to nominate their Best Elevens.

Bill O’Reilly‘s team…..

01. Bill Ponsford
02. Victor Trumper
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Don Bradman
05. Stan McCabe
06. Greg Chappell
07. Keith Miller
08. Ray Lindwall
09. Don Tallon
10. Clarrie Grimmett (captain)
11. Bill O’Reilly
12th Arthur Morris


Hunter ‘Stork‘ Hendry‘s team….
(oldest living Test cricketer at the time, born 1895)

01. Arthur Morris
02. Victor Trumper
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Don Bradman
05. Monty Noble (captain)
06. Keith Miller
07. Alan Davidson
08. Don Tallon
09. Ray Lindwall
10. Bill O’Reilly
11. Arthur Mailey


Cliff Winning’s team….
(cricket historian and NSW Cricket Association archivist)

01. Arthur Morris
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman (captain)
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Allan Border
07. Don Tallon
08. Clarrie Grimmett
09. Fred Spofforth
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O’Reilly


I thought it interesting that Don Tallon was universally accepted as Australia’s greatest keeper back in the 1980s. Even Bill O’Reilly selected Tallon over Bert Oldfield which is pretty amazing given the number of stumpings Oldfield would have given him.

 

[HookShot]

South Africa ATG XI

01. Graeme Smith *
02. Barry Richards
03. Jacques Kallis
04. Graeme Pollock
05. AB de Villiers
06. Aubrey Faulkner
07. Mike Proctor
08. Jock Cameron +
09. Hugh Tayfield
10. Dale Steyn
11. Allan Donald
12th Dudley Nourse

 

[trundler]

Lawry doesn't get his due in these teams. Very similar record to Boycott, Simpson and Morris.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I normally subscribe to the view that you pick the batsman to do their job, bowlers to do theirs and a wicket keeper to do his.
But it to be said that best XI from 1987 has one hell of a tail.
01. Bob Simpson
02. Sid Barnes
03. Don Bradman
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Alan Davidson
07. Don Tallon
08. Dennis Lillee
09. Clarrie Grimmett
10. Fred Spofforth
11. Bill O’Reilly

 

[TheJediBrah]

Philander was a great bowler

Nah he wasn't really. Flattered massively by his stats and way too reliant on conditions. Comparing him to Pollock is an insult to Pollock

 

[trundler]

Nah he wasn't really. Flattered massively by his stats and way too reliant on conditions. Comparing him to Pollock is an insult to Pollock

After 64 tests Pollock had 263 wickets at 20.71. Philander's awful fitness is also completely inexcusable for a bowler of his pace. People forget just how ineffective Philander was on unhelpful tracks too. Worse than other comparable bowlers like Anderson and Southee but he'd fake a niggle and protect his stats.

 

[jayjay]

Time to get into Asia with Pkaistan XIs:

Tests -
1. H. Muhammad
2. S. Anwar
3. Y. Khan
4. J. Miandad
5. M. Yousuf
6. M. Muhammad ao
7. I. Khan ao c
8. M. Khan wk
9. W. Akram ao
10. W. Younis
11. S. Ajmal

ODIs -
1. S. Anwar
2. F. Zaman
3. B. Azam
4. M. Yousuf
5. I. ul Haq
6. S. Afridi ao
7. M. Rizwan wk
8. I. Khan ao c
9. W. Akram ao
10. W. Younis
11. S. Ajmal

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

All Time Test XI:
1.G. Smith c
2. G. Kirsten
3. H. Amla
4. AB de Villiers
5. J. Kallis ao
6. D. Nourse
7. M. Boucher wk
8. V. Philander
9. A. Donald
10. D. Steyn
11. H. Tayfield

With your criteria I think I'd go:

Smith
Mitchell
Amla
Kallis
Nourse
De Villiers (wk)
Faulkner
Pollock
Steyn
Tayfield
Donald

Without the 25 Test minimum I'd swap Pollock in for Amla and probably Richards in for Mitchell.

 

[The Sean]

Just dusted off a book published in 1987 called ‘The Top 100 Australian Cricketers & the Best Eleven of all Time’ just see what the zeitgeist was 25 years ago.

The Best Eleven that the author (Philip Derriman) came up with was, in batting order…

01. Bob Simpson
02. Sid Barnes
03. Don Bradman
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Alan Davidson
07. Don Tallon
08. Dennis Lillee
09. Clarrie Grimmett
10. Fred Spofforth
11. Bill O’Reilly

I normally subscribe to the view that you pick the batsman to do their job, bowlers to do theirs and a wicket keeper to do his.
But it to be said that best XI from 1987 has one hell of a tail.
01. Bob Simpson
02. Sid Barnes
03. Don Bradman
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Alan Davidson
07. Don Tallon
08. Dennis Lillee
09. Clarrie Grimmett
10. Fred Spofforth
11. Bill O’Reilly

I actually have that book (back home in Australia, I've not seen it for years!) and have referenced it many times in these chats. The team selected by Derriman was an attempt to statistically choose an all time Australian XI based on by how far players outperformed their contemporaries. Each player was assigned a batting and bowling rating (and all-rounder rating) and the qualifying criteria was 1,000 Test runs or 75 Test wickets.

I am going by memory here (so HookShot can correct me if I get any of this wrong), but Derriman said he based his selection on the old theory that an ideal XI consists of five batsmen (two openers and three middle-order players), five bowlers (two opening bowlers, a first change, and two spinners) and a wicketkeeper and so that is how his team shaped up. He acknowledged that it had a long tail and said that serious consideration was given to including Keith Miller who had the highest all-rounder rating. However, he said that if Miller went in then Lillee had to come out, as both Spofforth and Davo had better bowling ratings. So, as he didn't want to lose Lillee he kept the team as it was. Bradman was named captain, and Miller chosen as 12th man.

There were several other "guest" teams named in addition to the ones noted above by HookShot, and it was interesting that Bradman, O'Reilly and Tallon were the only players who were chosen in every single team.

 

[The Sean]

Just dusted off a book published in 1987 called ‘The Top 100 Australian Cricketers & the Best Eleven of all Time’ just see what the zeitgeist was 25 years ago.

Also, I don't want to scare anyone but that was 35 years ago...

 

[Bitmap]

Time to get into Asia with Pkaistan XIs:

Tests -
1. H. Muhammad
2. S. Anwar
3. Y. Khan
4. J. Miandad
5. M. Yousuf
6. M. Muhammad ao
7. I. Khan ao c
8. M. Khan wk
9. W. Akram ao
10. W. Younis
11. S. Ajmal

ODIs -
1. S. Anwar
2. F. Zaman
3. B. Azam
4. M. Yousuf
5. I. ul Haq
6. S. Afridi ao
7. M. Rizwan wk
8. I. Khan ao c
9. W. Akram ao
10. W. Younis
11. S. Ajmal

Saqlain Mushtaq should be a lock in AT Pak ODI XI IMO.

 

[ImpatientLime]

ajmal is literally and unironically a cheat. bloke shouldn't be near any atg Pakistan xi

 

[Gob]

Estraya all things considered

Hayden
Lawry (got em yes piss off you are out)
Bradman
Chappell
Smith
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lillee
McGrath

England similarly

Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Root
KP
Botham
Knott
Barnes
Laker
Trueman
Anderson

 

[Gob]

Estraya all things considered

Hayden
Lawry (got em yes piss off you are out)
Bradman
Chappell
Smith
Border
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Lillee
McGrath

England similarly

Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Root
KP
Botham
Knott
Barnes
Laker
Trueman
Anderson

Estraya 2nds

Warner
Morris
Ponting
Harvey
Clarke
Waugh
Healy
Davidson
Johnson
Lindwall
O'reilly

 

[Gob]

ajmal is literally and unironically a cheat. bloke shouldn't be near any atg Pakistan xi

What a ****ing disgrace that bloke was

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Just dusted off a book published in 1987 called ‘The Top 100 Australian Cricketers & the Best Eleven of all Time’ just see what the zeitgeist was 25 years ago.

The Best Eleven that the author (Philip Derriman) came up with was, in batting order…

01. Bob Simpson
02. Sid Barnes
03. Don Bradman
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Alan Davidson
07. Don Tallon
08. Dennis Lillee
09. Clarrie Grimmett
10. Fred Spofforth
11. Bill O’Reilly


The author also asked several other players and writers to nominate their Best Elevens.

Bill O’Reilly‘s team…..

01. Bill Ponsford
02. Victor Trumper
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Don Bradman
05. Stan McCabe
06. Greg Chappell
07. Keith Miller
08. Ray Lindwall
09. Don Tallon
10. Clarrie Grimmett (captain)
11. Bill O’Reilly
12th Arthur Morris


Hunter ‘Stork‘ Hendry‘s team….
(oldest living Test cricketer at the time, born 1895)

01. Arthur Morris
02. Victor Trumper
03. Charlie Macartney
04. Don Bradman
05. Monty Noble (captain)
06. Keith Miller
07. Alan Davidson
08. Don Tallon
09. Ray Lindwall
10. Bill O’Reilly
11. Arthur Mailey


Cliff Winning’s team….
(cricket historian and NSW Cricket Association archivist)

01. Arthur Morris
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman (captain)
04. Neil Harvey
05. Greg Chappell
06. Allan Border
07. Don Tallon
08. Clarrie Grimmett
09. Fred Spofforth
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Bill O’Reilly


I thought it interesting that Don Tallon was universally accepted as Australia’s greatest keeper back in the 1980s. Even Bill O’Reilly selected Tallon over Bert Oldfield which is pretty amazing given the number of stumpings Oldfield would have given him.

That 1st XI from the author has a pretty long tail!