The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Fuller Pilch]

My post WWII XI as posted in my thread is:

1. Greenidge /
2. Gavaskar /
3. Viv /
4. Lara /
5. Tendulkar /
6. Sobers o /
7. Khan* o /
8. Gilchrist + /
9. Akram o /
10. Murali o
11. McGrath o

A pre-WWII but still keeping it within the 20th century:

1. J. Hobbs
2. H. Sutcliffe
3. D. Bradman
4. W. Hammond
5. G. Headley
6. D. Jardine c
7. L. Ames wk
8. M. Noble ao
9. S. Barnes
10. C. Blythe
11. B. Vogler

The post WW2 side is okay, but Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Steyn, and Ambrose are all better bowlers than Wasim imho.

For a pre WW2 side I'd go:

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman (c)
Hammond
Headley
Faulkner
Ames (wk)
Larwood
McDonald
Barnes
O'Reilly

 

[Shady Slim]

so who does Opener Usman (now averaging more than a hundred) replace in the aus xi ? ?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

so who does Opener Usman (now averaging more than a hundred) replace in the aus xi ? ?

3 more years of this and he's a definite chance. Who are the current openers in the Aussie ATG XI?

I see it coming down to 2 spots out of six from Trumper, Ponsford, Morris, Simpson, Lawry, and Hayden. If Warner had done better in away tests he'd be in consideration also.

 

[harsh.ag]

Aus XI should have Chappell and Ponting open the innings

GChappell
Ponting
Bradman
Smith
SWaugh (6)
Border (5) (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne (4)
Cummins (3)
Lillee (1)
McGrath (2)

Time to say goodbye to Miller from the XI imo. Impossible side to beat, this one.

 

[kyear2]

Aus XI should have Chappell and Ponting open the innings

GChappell
Ponting
Bradman
Smith
SWaugh (6)
Border (5) (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne (4)
Cummins (3)
Lillee (1)
McGrath (2)

Time to say goodbye to Miller from the XI imo. Impossible side to beat, this one.

Bobby Simpson is more than worthy. Excellent (ATG) record as an opener, elite slip fielder and more than useful spin bowler.

 

[Nikhil99.99]

Aus XI should have Chappell and Ponting open the innings

GChappell
Ponting
Bradman
Smith
SWaugh (6)
Border (5) (c)
Gilchrist (wk)
Warne (4)
Cummins (3)
Lillee (1)
McGrath (2)

Time to say goodbye to Miller from the XI imo. Impossible side to beat, this one.

Miller as a 5th bowler instead of border or Waugh will make the side stronger.He can be use in this side like bradman used him in 1948.

 

[kyear2]

The post WW2 side is okay, but Hadlee, Marshall, McGrath, Steyn, and Ambrose are all better bowlers than Wasim imho.

Not to make this a thing and to bring it up again, but genuinely don't understand how some have this impression that Wasim is clearly superior to Marshall, McGrath even Hadlee.

I know HB (I believe) believes as a total package (lower order batting / lhb) he is worthy of a look, but not over Maco or McGrath / Hadlee.
Even Steyn to me was a clearly better bowler, and not sure if Imran doesn't bring more to the table as a better batsman and bowler to counter the LH versatility. ??‍

 

[kyear2]

Miller as a 5th bowler instead of border or Waugh will make the side stronger.He can be use in this side like bradman used him in 1948.

But giving up way too much in the batting department. The role of 5th bowler has to be rated behind the primary role of that of no. 6 batsman. The 5rh bowler is there to spell McGrath, Lillee, Warne and Davidson / Lindwall / Cummins etc..

 

[harsh.ag]

Miller as a 5th bowler instead of border or Waugh will make the side stronger.He can be use in this side like bradman used him in 1948.

Yeah, no denying there are trade-offs involved.

 

[Nikhil99.99]

But giving up way too much in the batting department. The role of 5th bowler has to be rated behind the primary role of that of no. 6 batsman. The 5rh bowler is there to spell McGrath, Lillee, Warne and Davidson / Lindwall / Cummins etc..

But with gilchrist and don in there I don’t think so.Miller was a good enough batsman and he was at his most destructive bowling 3-4 over spell.

 

[kyear2]

But with gilchrist and don in there I don’t think so.Miller was a good enough batsman and he was at his most destructive bowling 3-4 over spell.

In cricket it takes one ball to get out. You're facing an AT WI XI, a bit reckless to leave out Border for a 5th bowler that was best used in new ball bursts.

 

[Xix2565]

Tbh that's a risk Shastri would take tbh.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

But giving up way too much in the batting department. The role of 5th bowler has to be rated behind the primary role of that of no. 6 batsman. The 5rh bowler is there to spell McGrath, Lillee, Warne and Davidson / Lindwall / Cummins etc..

Do you have Botham in your England all time xi or would that give up too much batting?

 

[kyear2]

Do you have Botham in your England all time xi or would that give up too much batting?

No, not a fan of of the bits and pieces all rounders. Batsman who can bowl a bit and a bowler who can hold their own at no. 8.

 

[HookShot]

Australia’s best modern teams had Steve Waugh and Doug Walters at No.6 bowling medium pace.

When Keith Miller batted in the middle order for Australia during the 40’s and 50s Australia had Colin McCool, Ian Johnson, Ray Lindwall and Don Tallon (all competent batsman) propping-up the tail.

So yes you can play a ‘balanced’ all rounder as a batsman, but the team needs to bat long to compensate.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Ian Botham isn't a bits and pieces allrounder, with 14 centuries and 383 wickets. In his prime he can bat at 6 and take the new ball.

 

[HookShot]

Ian Botham isn't a bits and pieces allrounder, with 14 centuries and 383 wickets. In his prime he can bat at 6 and take the new ball.

Botham averaged 29 at No.6 and 40 at No.7 because he didn’t have the temperament to methodically build an innings, and because he was at his best when he had license to throw the bat.

Botham averaged 23 at No.6 (top score 81) against the West Indies, so we can imagine that in any ATG context the batsman at No.7 and 8 would under constant pressure to score runs and protect the tail.

 

[HookShot]

In hind-sight England would have been better off playing a typical 4-bowler attack during the 1980s and putting Gatting at No.6 to assist Botham while he threw the bat at No.7

And of course Botham should have been given a very strict dietician/physiotherapist so that his back could stand up to bowling 135 kph without falling apart.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

One day hopefully someone will stop 12 year olds who don’t watch cricket from using stats guru.

 

[HookShot]

One day hopefully someone will stop 12 year olds who don’t watch cricket from using stats guru.

I watched Botham throughout the 1980s, including live. He simply didn’t have what is takes to be a consistent top order batsman as brilliant as he was - Stats Guru or not.