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CW's Ranking of Pace Bowlers (Tests)

PaulLennon

PaulLennon

U19 Vice-Captain
jayjay said:
Well, even if we're just looking at stats 25.10 while playing tonnes of cricket in Asia is phenomenal across 83 test matches and 307 wickets. But minusing NZ is crazy, however nice try little brother (in South Korea this is a term of endearment).

I would like some of you posters to walk up to the likes of Athers, Bumble, Nasser and tell them that Akram isn't one of the greatest ever.

I refer to many posters on here as amateurs for a reason :laugh:
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Cause they all played in a sucky English team which got beaten up by wasim and pak.

who made the sky commentators the authority on anything. A bunch of mediocre cricketers.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
_00_deathscar said:
Yet another stat problem here, Wasim Akram's numbers are massively inflated by his bullying of New Zealand.

Minus Bang and Zimbabwe who were/are a nonsense test side and New Zealand, his average drops to a much more human 25.10 That's not bad but it's not part of the whole brigade "well Wasim Akram was an ATG/2nd best bowler in the world of all time"

I'm not putting him down, he was a good bowler in a strong-ish side. There have been far better, athletic bowlers than him.
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I am not a Wasim fan. He wouldn't even make top 10 for me.

But I disagree with this take on him. You are describing a 1.5 point change in average. It really isn't particularly significant. The vast, vast majority of players have stat padded by smacking some weaker sides, and plenty to a greater degree than this. There are players that have filled their boots on weaker sides to ridiculous degrees that deserve mention, but I dont think Wasim is even close to one of them.
 
J

jayjay

U19 Cricketer
PaulLennon said:
Cause they all played in a sucky English team which got beaten up by wasim and pak.

who made the sky commentators the authority on anything. A bunch of mediocre cricketers.
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They're not the authority. Why not look up just about any writing on cricket worth it's salt (this is a saying, don't actually go and check the worth of salt), ranging from writers at WISDEN to ESPNs list of greatest ever cricketers and Akram is, among pace bowlers either ranked at the top or near it.

An al time list, the top 5-10 in particular includes names that are interchangeable with everyone on that having an argument for being the best (McGrath, Marshall for example having an argument for being better in this case). To claim Akram doesn't even have an argument to be among the very best is either ignorance or bias.
 
srbhkshk

srbhkshk

International Captain
Bolo. said:
I am not a Wasim fan. He wouldn't even make top 10 for me.

But I disagree with this take on him. You are describing a 1.5 point change in average. It really isn't particularly significant. The vast, vast majority of players have stat padded by smacking some weaker sides, and plenty to a greater degree than this. There are players that have filled their boots on weaker sides to ridiculous degrees that deserve mention, but I dont think Wasim is even close to one of them.
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That's because it's a counter-troll post to the one in the wicketkeeper thread.
 
PaulLennon

PaulLennon

U19 Vice-Captain
jayjay said:
They're not the authority. Why not look up just about any writing on cricket worth it's salt (this is a saying, don't actually go and check the worth of salt), ranging from writers at WISDEN to ESPNs list of greatest ever cricketers and Akram is, among pace bowlers either ranked at the top or near it.

An al time list, the top 5-10 in particular includes names that are interchangeable with everyone on that having an argument for being the best (McGrath, Marshall for example having an argument for being better in this case). To claim Akram doesn't even have an argument to be among the very best is either ignorance or bias.
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he's top 10 easily but not top 1-3 which is what the post was about. mcgrath, marshall, steyn, ambrose, hadlee all better. imran also better.

saying wasim is a top 1-3 test bowler is like saying kobe is the basketball goat or dhoni odi batting goat. clear top 10 player but clearly not a GOAT contender.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
PaulLennon said:
he's top 10 easily but not top 1-3 which is what the post was about. mcgrath, marshall, steyn, ambrose, hadlee all better. imran also better.

saying wasim is a top 1-3 test bowler is like saying kobe is the basketball goat or dhoni odi batting goat. clear top 10 player but clearly not a GOAT contender.
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Wasim has been well and overly litigated, he's an undisputed ATG, and for me can slot anywhere from 7 to 12.

The argument I like is Kobe, I genuinely don't understand why anyone thinks he's a top 5 player far less the GOAT.
 
Line and Length

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
jayjay said:
I refer to many posters on here as amateurs for a reason :laugh:
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... and you're some sort of self-appointed expert? You come into a CW thread which is about CW members voting for Pace Bowlers (Test) and decide it's OK to throw your own opinionated list into the mix, stirring up unnecessary debate, insulting well established (and credentialed) members as if you own the thread. Back off, allow voting to continue and then, when voting is finalised,
 
J

jayjay

U19 Cricketer
Line and Length said:
... and you're some sort of self-appointed expert? You come into a CW thread which is about CW members voting for Pace Bowlers (Test) and decide it's OK to throw your own opinionated list into the mix, stirring up unnecessary debate, insulting well established (and credentialed) members as if you own the thread. Back off, allow voting to continue and then, when voting is finalised,
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Credentialed members? What are their credentials?

And relax friend, this is an internet forum, people are allowed to post their opinions and if you think that any of the guys I listed in my top 10 don't have an argument to be there then you know very little about the game you are apparently credentialed in.

Plus the only people offended seem to be those who have an agenda.

but the vote is interesting and at most a fun read, so there's that. I like this thread.
 
G

gftw

U19 12th Man
Broad - 5
Wagner - 2
Southee - 3
Thomson - 1
Pollock - 2

The List
1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn Mcgrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Curtly Ambrose
5. Dale Steyn
6. Imran Khan
7. Dennis Lillee
8. Fred Trueman
9. Wasim Akram
10. Allan Donald
11. Joel Garner
12. Ray Lindwall
13. Michael Holding
14. Waqar Younis
15. Alan Davidson
16. Shaun Pollock
17. Courtney Walsh
18. Andy Roberts
19. James Anderson
20. Pat Cummins
21. Keith Miller
22. Brian Statham
23. Bob Willis
24. Shoaib Akhtar
25. Harold Larwood
26. Ian Bishop
27. Neil Adcock
28. Wes Hall
29. Kagiso Rabada
30. Frank Tyson
31. Kapil Dev
32. John Snow
33. Jasprit Bumrah
34. Ian Botham
35. Stuart Broad

The vote for the #36 test pace bowler of all-time begins now.
 
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