How does Sydney Barnes rank among bowlers?

[Migara]

I


Bradman thought that O’Reilly and Barnes were similar bowlers; Barnes being just a bit a quicker.

And he’d be right if this quote is anything to go by as their method of imparting revolutions on the ball seems to be similar....



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This is one of the two methods of bowling the Carom ball. Carom ball can be delivered as back spun ball (slider), front of hand ball (leg break) and back of the hand ball (googly) and also by facing the back of the palm to the batsman (flatter googly). It can be flicked from ring finger (where it can seamlessly can be mixed with traditional leggies because of the similarity of the grip) or middle finger, where it can be easily mixed with off breaks.

It makes sense because O'Riely and Barnes were tall men with long fingers. Very much the case with Gleeson and Mendis too.

This is the alternate grip (and observe the length of Gleeson's fingers)

 

[NotMcKenzie]

Bradman thought that O’Reilly and Barnes were similar bowlers; Barnes being just a bit a quicker.

Has it occurred to you Bradman's impression might be incorrect?

 

[kyear2]

I'm explaining a subtletly of terms and methods that's beyond your pea-brained intellect.

Is't that a bit uncalled for?

 

[HookShot]

Has it occurred to you Bradman's impression might be incorrect?

No, because the careers of Bradman and Barnes were a little more than a decade apart and Bradman would have heard descriptions of Barnes’ bowling from the Australian batsman who had to face him. Plus Bradman was typically analytical in his thinking.

 

[HookShot]

This is one of the two methods of bowling the Carom ball. Carom ball can be delivered as back spun ball (slider), front of hand ball (leg break) and back of the hand ball (googly) and also by facing the back of the palm to the batsman (flatter googly). It can be flicked from ring finger (where it can seamlessly can be mixed with traditional leggies because of the similarity of the grip) or middle finger, where it can be easily mixed with off breaks.

It makes sense because O'Riely and Barnes were tall men with long fingers. Very much the case with Gleeson and Mendis too.

This is the alternate grip (and observe the length of Gleeson's fingers)

View attachment 30753

But that’s not the grip as demonstrated by Barnes and O’Reilly themelves (see previous) although I dare say that it would produce roughly the same effect.

 

[HookShot]

As we know the leg-cutter is bowled by dragging the middle and index fingers DOWN the left-side of the ball.

BBC SPORT | Cricket | Skills | Learn the leg cutter

What made Barnes, O’Reilly and Bedser believe that they spun the ball (rather than merely cut it) was that they flicked their third (ring) finger UPwards on the right-side of the ball. Obviously there would have been some down-ward movement of the middle and index fingers - but the revolutions on the ball primarily came from the third or ring finger.

And it is this unique ability that sets them apart, especially when bowled at medium pace.

(IMO of course)

 

[Prince EWS]

What made Barnes, O’Reilly and Bedser believe that they spun the ball (rather than merely cut it) was that they flicked their third (ring) finger UPwards on the right-side of the ball.

Kallis did that when he bowled his cutter too - all three fingers moved anti-clockwise from where they started. Surely there's more to it than that; no-one would ever claim Kallis was bowling spin for that variation.

 

[TheJediBrah]

There's not really a definite distinction between "cut" and "spin" if you're talking about an action that puts revolution on the ball. Just a spectrum of how much pace you bowl it with, how much revolution, trajectory etc. Generally if it's slower with more revs it's called spin and if it's a quicker bowler it's called cut.

Is't that a bit uncalled for?

in the circumstances it was probably warranted tbh

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't think the number of fingers involved is relevant either. You can bowl spin (with some difficulty) with just 2 fingers if you want, and you can bowl fast cutters with 3 or 4 fingers if you want too.

 

[Daemon]

I personally enjoy one finger

 

[HookShot]

Kallis did that when he bowled his cutter too - all three fingers moved anti-clockwise from where they started. Surely there's more to it than that; no-one would ever claim Kallis was bowling spin for that variation.

I wrote;

‘What made Barnes, O’Reilly and Bedser believe that they spun the ball (rather than merely cut it)....’

I was trying to answer the question as to why Barnes, O’Reilly (?) and Bedser believed that they had spun the ball as opposed to cut it.

After all, Barnes in his interview with David Frith seemed quite adamant that he spun the ball.

So I guess I was trying to answer a psychological question rather than attempting to define what it means to a ‘spinner’.

 

[HookShot]

John Arlott stated that SF Barnes was;

"...a right-arm fast-medium bowler with the accuracy, spin and resource of a slow bowler".

I like this statement because it allows both camps (pacer v spinner) to be simultaneously correct.

The Spin | Rejoicing in the Twirlymen and the forgotten art of medium-paced spin | Andy Bull

Andy Bull: SF Barnes's 70mph spinners brought him universal recognition as the greatest bowler of his era. A new book details how he did it

www.theguardian.com

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't think there's a big mystery, he basically bowled Vaas/Bracken cutters with varied pace, and possibly spun/cut it the opposite way

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't think there's a big mystery, he basically bowled Vaas/Bracken cutters with varied pace, and possibly spun/cut it the opposite way

Now I'm reminded of the "Mustafizur Rahman is a spinner" meme; it's actually really applicable to this conversation lol.

 

[cnerd123]

Now I'm reminded of the "Mustafizur Rahman is a spinner" meme; it's actually really applicable to this conversation lol.

Obligatory Jarrod Kimber video:

 

[Starfighter]

Is't that a bit uncalled for?

I'd consider it holding back, considering the amount of nonsense he promulgates.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Your face promulgates

 

[karan_fromthestands]

This is one of the two methods of bowling the Carom ball. Carom ball can be delivered as back spun ball (slider), front of hand ball (leg break) and back of the hand ball (googly) and also by facing the back of the palm to the batsman (flatter googly). It can be flicked from ring finger (where it can seamlessly can be mixed with traditional leggies because of the similarity of the grip) or middle finger, where it can be easily mixed with off breaks.

It makes sense because O'Riely and Barnes were tall men with long fingers. Very much the case with Gleeson and Mendis too.

This is the alternate grip (and observe the length of Gleeson's fingers)

View attachment 30753

 

[karan_fromthestands]

"Really hard(actually impossible) to call"

 

[Victor Ian]

I get easily caught up in the Barnes hype. What I find amazing is when it's pointed out that Murali and Imran had sections in their careers where they were comparable