CW's Ranking of Pace Bowlers (Tests)

[ankitj]

Holding has finished above Davidson in any ranking I have ever come across, on CW or outside

 

[Lillian Thomson]

John Snow was a better bowler than many of these, including Davidson, but never gets a mention. Longevity/number of matches has a huge influence on the batting and to some extent the fast bowling. Yet in the spinners thread aside from the top two it's dominated by half career pie throwers from the dark ages (exaggeration of course, but the point remains).

 

[Fuller Pilch]

His averages in the two series against Bradman before bodyline were 40 and 73. You're pretty much just rating him that high based on one series where he had to use a pretty dangerous strategy that was seen as not in the spirit of the game. Bradman still averaged 57 in the series. Without the bodyline series, his stats are quite mediocre. Average pops up to 35 and tbh that's still inflated by performances against some pretty average/weak South African and West Indian sides.

Yes, he averaged 40 and 73 because he was bowling to Bradman.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yeah agreed - wonderful bowler, but I reckon he's a couple of spots too high.

Nah Holding definitely deserves to be where he is. Has an excellent record across nations and is rated very highly by his peers. Could be at #10 and wouldn't be too high.

I reckon Waqar is too high, which is probably due to his peak and success at home. His away record is quite poor compared to the guys around him in the list. Excluding the minnows, he averages 27.5 away from home and he isn't really rated as one of the best of his era by his peers.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yes, he averaged 40 and 73 because he was bowling to Bradman.

Are 40 and 73 supposed to be very good averages because Bradman was present? In the series where he averaged 40, Bradman only averaged like 60. In the series where he averaged 73, Bradman did average over a 100, but I'm not really sure that makes up for it. In the 2019 ashes, Smith averaged over a 100 as well, but Broad, Archer, and Leach still managed to average around the 20-25 range.

Think he's pretty much being rated this high based on one series where he had to use the bodyline tactic.

 

[Slifer]

Pollock.

 

[Coronis]

Pollock

 

[CricAddict]

Roberts

 

[subshakerz]

Andy Roberts. Decent stats and very high peer rating.

 

[Daemon]

Roberts yeah

I think Pollock’s next. Feels about time.

 

[ataraxia]

Pollock

 

[ataraxia]

Can we stop the argument that FC doesn't matter in this discussion? It should be about adjusted-for-era performances in hypothetical tests; otherwise all who got less than 200-300 test wickets should be ignored.

Of course, you can say that FC stats don't matter because they were mostly played in a 17-team competition where averaging 30 as a batter was good. Which is much better, if still somewhat short-sighted objection.

 

[Bolo.]

Had Pollock played as long as Roberts he would have been averaging 20. Had he blown his overall record out to be significantly worse than Roberts thereafter this would be a tricky call, but he still averages 23 to Roberts' 26, while playing most of his career in the 2000s.

So ya, Pollock.

 

[kyear2]

He was also the best test fast bowler of his era and pre-Lindwall and won perhaps the most famous test series of all time for his captain against the GOAT batsman.

One series though

Can we stop the argument that FC doesn't matter in this discussion? It should be about adjusted-for-era performances in hypothetical tests; otherwise all who got less than 200-300 test wickets should be ignored.

Of course, you can say that FC stats don't matter because they were mostly played in a 17-team competition where averaging 30 as a batter was good. Which is much better, if still somewhat short-sighted objection.

So Barry deserved to be picked a long time ago in the batting rankings then?

 

[ataraxia]

So Barry deserved to be picked a long time ago in the batting rankings then?

Yes but it's more fun when one doesn't vote Barry over and over again.

And there is an argument that Barry's what, 20-odd games at a very high level is not enough to put him up there - for a batter.

 

[Nikhil99.99]

Larwood wasnt 100 percent in 1930 series.In addition to his other fitness worries Larwood was, throughout this summer, also troubled by dental problems.He bowled Australia out in the 1st match in 1928.Then got tired and wasn’t close to 100 percent after that.As wisden itself has wrote.The 1932-33 series would be the one where he really was 100 percent.
And he finished with 33 wickets in 4.5 tests
.And never played for England again after the age of 28,at his peak.His impact is unmatched.Undoubtedly larwood made the most impact among any fast bowler before 70s.
His fc stats tops almost everyone in the list.Larwood created a terror that was probably never matched.Not even by Tyson,Thommo or Johnson.
The bodyline is probably the most famous thing in cricket and larwood was one of its 3 main characters alongside bradman and jardine.His bowling average of 28 is great given bedser bowling average till bradmans retirement was 33 overall and 46 against Australia.

 

[HookShot]

Basically showed Michael Holding et al how it was done - The Hitman, Andy Roberts.

 

[The Sean]

Shaun Pollock

 

[trundler]

Pollock is the only bowler in history who averaged under 25 after 50 tests.

 

[morgieb]

Shaun Pollock