CW's Ranking of Batsmen (Tests)

[ankitj]

Dudley Nourse

Don't think he will get much votes. So Younis Khan who will be good to round off the top 25 with

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Boycott

Andy Flower zero votes so far ?

 

[honestbharani]

I will always rate Sehwag, Warner and Hayden higher than most folks do. The ability to absolutely dominate and soul crush opposition bowling as openers in certain conditions is extremely under rated. These guys, especially Sehwag, almost guarantees you enough time to bowl to a win too.

That said, I do rate Graeme Smith above these 3. So there ya go.

 

[HookShot]

I like May, Kanhai, Grace but why not Younis Khan, big heart.

Younis Khan.

 

[srbhkshk]

Younis

 

[subshakerz]

Younis Khan

 

[subshakerz]

Walcott - 3
Nourse - 2
Compton - 6
Younis - 3
Richards - 1
Trumper - 1

The List
1. Don Bradman
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Garry Sobers
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Viv Richards
6. Brian Lara
7. Len Hutton
8. Wally Hammond
9. Sunil Gavaskar
10. Steve Smith
11. George Headley
12. Herbert Sutcliffe
13. Greg Chappell
14. Ricky Ponting
15. Graeme Pollock
16. Kumar Sangakkara
17. Allan Border
18. Jacques Kallis
19. Steve Waugh
20. Ken Barrington
21. Javed Mindad
22. Rahul Dravid
23. Everton Weekes
24. Denis Compton

The vote for the #25 test batsman of all-time begins now.

Just tuning in now but some really shockers for me on that list:

Gavaskar over Smith? I thought Smith is almost top 5 on this forum.

Thought Border would be higher.

Kallis over Waugh? Nah.

Miandad over Dravid? Pleasantly surprised at that.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Just tuning in now but some really shockers for me on that list:

Gavaskar over Smith? I thought Smith is almost top 5 on this forum.

Thought Border would be higher.

Kallis over Waugh? Nah.

Miandad over Dravid? Pleasantly surprised at that.

Smith suffers from CW Still Playing Syndrome.

 

[The Sean]

I want to vote for Victor Trumper as always, but as it will once again be the only vote he receives, I'll put my vote toward one of the two blokes who might actually get in.

Clyde Walcott (who would make my top 25 anyway)

 

[_00_deathscar]

He was better, arguably. I think he was definitely better but there’s not THAT much in it to be honest.

There hasn’t been an opener like Sehwag since.

Sehwag had a horrible horrible decline. There’s an 80 or something test stretch where he’s averaging closer to 55 than 50 (and also had respectable away stats in this period). I know it’s cherry picking and I know it was the flat pitch area so shave a few off - but you can’t ignore his SR that basically won games. No one has come close to his SR since.

There are ODI legends of the game around his time that don’t strike at the rate in ODIs as he does in tests.

Here it is again, before he went completely ****.

From 2003-2010, opening only:
72 matches, average 57.22 @ 84.13

Average against...
Australia: 48.36
Pakistan: 97.76
South Africa: 54. 65
Sri Lanka: 72.88

Average in...
Australia: 59.50
India: 60.28
Pakistan: 103.85
Sri Lanka: 69.20

Yes he was **** in NZ and South Africa.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Here it is again, before he went completely ****.

From 2003-2010, opening only:
72 matches, average 57.22 @ 84.13

Average against...
Australia: 48.36
Pakistan: 97.76
South Africa: 54. 65
Sri Lanka: 72.88

Average in...
Australia: 59.50
India: 60.28
Pakistan: 103.85
Sri Lanka: 69.20

Yes he was **** in NZ and South Africa.

Fair enough. That is pretty good. His strike rate is the reason I have him over Cook and Hayden, but I can't move him above Graeme Smith due to his record in England, New Zealand, and South Africa.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Fair enough. That is pretty good. His strike rate is the reason I have him over Cook and Hayden, but I can't move him above Graeme Smith due to his record in England, New Zealand, and South Africa.

Yea - that's fair. Like I said, I'd choose Smith too most likely as a definitive smidgeon above the other 3, but I don't think there's that much in it.

I did forget to include - I think his average in England in that timeframe above was 39-something. Obviously nothing to shout home about, but decent enough - it was that final series (along with just generally his final year or so where he was completely gone) that really wrecked his average. It was always **** in NZ and South Africa, though he did absolutely dominate South Africa at home.

Sadly like we're seeing with Kohli now, his average really plummeted from somewhere in the mid 50s to what it went to in basically just 17 months - 2 years.

There's maybe a good argument to be had that he'd probably be more found out in today's game than in the flat pitch era given we've seen how most bats are struggling. And also that he'd be less needed given very few games even make it to 5 days, let alone the last session as they're all over by that point.
But on the other hand if he did get going even with a couple of streaky boundaries, his 40 (48) type scores could be massively helpful/demoralising especially in the 200/250 plays 200/250 type shootouts we see these days.
Who knows?

Either way he really was perfect for the flat pitch era he did play in - many a game that would have otherwise ended in a draw would have turned thanks to his contribution.

Think Sehwag draws a short straw on CW in that respect - when he was on song there really weren't many like him before or after (whereas Elgar is basically a Smith-lite which isn't to denigrate Smith, I think Elgar's very underrated too).

 

[Slifer]

I will always rate Sehwag, Warner and Hayden higher than most folks do. The ability to absolutely dominate and soul crush opposition bowling as openers in certain conditions is extremely under rated. These guys, especially Sehwag, almost guarantees you enough time to bowl to a win too.

That said, I do rate Graeme Smith above these 3. So there ya go.

Warner is completely useless outside Australia. Sehwag and Hayden at least are serviceable.

 

[kyear2]

Smith suffers from CW Still Playing Syndrome.

Exactly this. He shouldn't be outside the top 7

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Think Sehwag draws a short straw on CW in that respect - when he was on song there really weren't many like him before or after (whereas Elgar is basically a Smith-lite which isn't to denigrate Smith, I think Elgar's very underrated too).

Pretty harsh on Smith considering Smith has a strike rate of about 60(so equal to Hayden), while Elgar has a strike rate of about 47.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yea - that's fair. Like I said, I'd choose Smith too most likely as a definitive smidgeon above the other 3, but I don't think there's that much in it.

I did forget to include - I think his average in England in that timeframe above was 39-something. Obviously nothing to shout home about, but decent enough - it was that final series (along with just generally his final year or so where he was completely gone) that really wrecked his average. It was always **** in NZ and South Africa, though he did absolutely dominate South Africa at home.

I agree that Sehwag's strengths are immensely underrated. Said it before I think he's one of those players who if he played in the early 1900s or something, cricket writers would have gone gaga over the absurd rate of scoring and held him in very very high regard because entertainment/aesthetics/scoring rate was considered valuable and worth writing poems about rather than what some dude averaged in 4 matches in England in his career. Modern players' records are scrutinized far more than players even from the 70s and 80s imo. Sehwag's big doubles and triples didnt just come against no-name minnow attacks. His two triples were against Steyn/Morkel/Ntini and Akhtar/Saqlain, his 290 was vs Murali, another double vs Murali/Mendis at Galle. Flat pitch or not, people don't fully appreciate how insane it is to treat bowlers of that quality with the disdain he did.

That being said, I think just looking at his overall strike rate is partly atleast a function of his inability to stay in and see off the new ball. He repeatedly exposed Dravid and Tendulkar and the others early in the innings because he'd smash 20 in 18 balls and **** off back to the pavilion. Even a 20 in 70 balls would have been a significant improvement in value. The fact that India were able to win in England in 07 with DInesh Karthik and Wasim Jaffer opening instead of him says a lot imo. India missed a trick by not sending him down the order at number 6 or something in overseas conditions and telling him to do a Gilchrist. So I dont think I would rank him higher than say Graeme Smith or Gordon Greenidge as an opener even though he was capable of things those guys weren't.

 

[gftw]

The Final List
1. Don Bradman
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Garry Sobers
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Viv Richards
6. Brian Lara
7. Len Hutton
8. Wally Hammond
9. Sunil Gavaskar
10. Steve Smith
11. George Headley
12. Herbert Sutcliffe
13. Greg Chappell
14. Ricky Ponting
15. Graeme Pollock
16. Kumar Sangakkara
17. Allan Border
18. Jacques Kallis
19. Steve Waugh
20. Ken Barrington
21. Javed Mindad
22. Rahul Dravid
23. Everton Weekes
24. Denis Compton
25. Younis Khan

 

[Immenso]

Pretty harsh on Smith considering Smith has a strike rate of about 60(so equal to Hayden), while Elgar has a strike rate of about 47.

different Smiths

 

[PlayerComparisons]

different Smiths

I'm talking about Graeme Smith.

 

[kyear2]

The Final List
1. Don Bradman
2. Jack Hobbs
3. Garry Sobers
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Viv Richards
6. Brian Lara
7. Len Hutton
8. Wally Hammond
9. Sunil Gavaskar
10. Steve Smith
11. George Headley
12. Herbert Sutcliffe
13. Greg Chappell
14. Ricky Ponting
15. Graeme Pollock
16. Kumar Sangakkara
17. Allan Border
18. Jacques Kallis
19. Steve Waugh
20. Ken Barrington
21. Javed Mindad
22. Rahul Dravid
23. Everton Weekes
24. Denis Compton
25. Younis Khan

No huge issues with the top 10, wouldn't choose that order (Smith should be higher among a few other minor quibbles), Ponting should also be higher, but not a bad list..