CW's Ranking of Batsmen (Tests)

[OverratedSanity]

Would have border kallis Dravid Waugh all ahead of Barrington tbh

 

[Line and Length]

I don’t know if it’s been beaten in the last few years, but for a very long time Barrington held the record for reaching most Test hundreds with a six.

I believe Tendulkar equalled that record (4 Test centuries completed with a six). Another record he held (on his own) was the fact he made a Test hundred on every Test match ground in England and in every Test-playing country of the world. Of course, since then, other grounds have been added to the list of Test match grounds in England.

 

[Line and Length]

Would have border kallis Dravid Waugh all ahead of Barrington tbh

On what grounds? If we look at their averages, Barrington 58.67 > Kallis 55.37 > Dravid 52.31 > Waugh 51.06 > Border 50.56 and Barrington's figures, unlike Kallis, Dravid and Waugh, haven't been inflated by flattering figures against both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
Compare the averages against Australia (Waugh and Border naturally excluded) Barrington 63.97 > Kallis 41.22 > Dravid 38.68.

I know my opinion might be biased, having lived through Barrington's career, but I'm amazed that he can be so under-rated.

 

[HookShot]

Allan Border faced all of....

Marshall
Holding
Roberts
Ambrose
Walsh
Hadlee
Imran
Waqar
Wasim
Willis
Botham
Kapil Dev

Has there been another batsman who has faced a more star studded line-up of pace bowlers and still averaged 50+?

If there is then I can’t think of any right now.

 

[Immenso]

Allan Border faced all of....

Marshall
Holding
Roberts
Ambrose
Walsh
Hadlee
Imran
Waqar
Wasim
Willis
Botham
Kapil Dev

Has there been another batsman who has faced a more star studded line-up of pace bowlers and still averaged 50+?

If there is then I can’t think of any right now.

His exact contemporary, Miandad.

 

[trundler]

Miandad was rated equal with Border at the time and him being relegated to a lower tier in hindsight is peak CW Anglo-centrism. He owned Hadlee though had struggles against WI, whereas Border was meh against Paddles.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

There were also concerns about Javed profiting from Pakistani umpiring, but Aussie umpires in the 80s made Shakoor Rana look good.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Miandad was rated equal with Border at the time and him being relegated to a lower tier in hindsight is peak CW Anglo-centrism. He owned Hadlee though had struggles against WI, whereas Border was meh against Paddles.

Border did pretty well against Hadlee. Got owned by John Bracewell's offspin though. Miandad was a gun.

 

[Nikhil99.99]

Never saw barrington.But his away average is nearly 70.Very underrated in CW.

 

[OverratedSanity]

On what grounds? If we look at their averages, Barrington 58.67 > Kallis 55.37 > Dravid 52.31 > Waugh 51.06 > Border 50.56 and Barrington's figures, unlike Kallis, Dravid and Waugh, haven't been inflated by flattering figures against both Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
Compare the averages against Australia (Waugh and Border naturally excluded) Barrington 63.97 > Kallis 41.22 > Dravid 38.68.

I know my opinion might be biased, having lived through Barrington's career, but I'm amazed that he can be so under-rated.

Quite apart from the fact that I don't think only taking one set of performances against a great team (decades apart) to be a good way to decide who was better, it could reasonably be argued the west indies were close to if not the best team in the world for a large part of the 60s. Barrington only averaged 34 vs them.

He also had a much shorter career than the others here. And while holding this against him might seem unfair I don't think a higher average means much when your career is so short you don't go through the natural troughs most batsmen do at various stages of a full length career. Especially when kallis Dravid and Waugh have had statistically equally impressive stretches in their own careers. Do understand some CWers don't agree on this thinking but I feel like I've been reasonably consistent on that. If he had a Steve Smith like peak where he was piling up the runs in a difficult era when few others are then I'd be glad to rank him much higher.

Not saying it'd be crazy to rank him higher at all ftr. He's not Barry Richards or anything, but those are my reasons.

 

[HookShot]

Miandad was rated equal with Border at the time and him being relegated to a lower tier in hindsight is peak CW Anglo-centrism. He owned Hadlee though had struggles against WI, whereas Border was meh against Paddles.

Allan Border held the Australian team together during the dark days of the post Chappell/Lillee era; that’s why he is revered so much.

That and an average of 53 (10 Tests) on the Windies home turf which is crazy if you think about it.

He also averaged 51 (10 Tests) on Hadlee’s home turf, so unlikely to be Hadlee’s bunny.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Quite apart from the fact that I don't think only taking one set of performances against a great team (decades apart) to be a good way to decide who was better, it could reasonably be argued the west indies were close to if not the best team in the world for a large part of the 60s. Barrington only averaged 34 vs them.

He also had a much shorter career than the others here. And while holding this against him might seem unfair I don't think a higher average means much when your career is so short you don't go through the natural troughs most batsmen do at various stages of a full length career. Especially when kallis Dravid and Waugh have had statistically equally impressive stretches in their own careers. Do understand some CWers don't agree on this thinking but I feel like I've been reasonably consistent on that. If he had a Steve Smith like peak where he was piling up the runs in a difficult era when few others are then I'd be glad to rank him much higher.

Not saying it'd be crazy to rank him higher at all ftr. He's not Barry Richards or anythimg
but those are my reasons.

His career was like 13 years long. That's only like 3 years shorter than Dravid. Wouldn't call that "much shorter". Making it sound like his career lasted like 4 years.

It feels harsh though in my opinion to use slightly shorter careers of players from back then against them since they had to play a ridiculous amount of first class games. Barrington played 533 first class games compared to Kallis's 257 and Dravids 298. I bet the latter two would retire a bit earlier as well if they played as many games within such a relatively short amount of time.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Allan Border faced all of....

Marshall
Holding
Roberts
Ambrose
Walsh
Hadlee
Imran
Waqar
Wasim
Willis
Botham
Kapil Dev

Has there been another batsman who has faced a more star studded line-up of pace bowlers and still averaged 50+?

If there is then I can’t think of any right now.

Steve Waugh faced all of:

Marshall
Ambrose
Walsh
Bishop
Hadlee
Imran
Wasim
Waqar
Shoaib
Donald
Pollock
Bond
Bothom
Kapil

So I'd say they've probably faced similar pace bowlers but Waugh in my opinion has faced better spinners such as Murali and Kumble.

 

[The Sean]

I know my opinion might be biased, having lived through Barrington's career, but I'm amazed that he can be so under-rated.

What's your memory of how Barrington was rated during his playing days? I ask in reference to my previous post about this, where it seems that during his time he was admired rather than revered. Tom Graveney, one of his contemporaries, published a book of top 10 lists and team selections where he placed Barrington at number one on the list of "batsmen to play for my life" noting his great tenacity and ability to frustrate bowlers. But when Graveney chose his post-war England XI (in 1982) he couldn't find a spot for Barrington at all, choosing instead a middle order of May-Compton-Cowdrey.

 

[OverratedSanity]

His career was like 13 years long. That's only like 3 years shorter than Dravid. Wouldn't call that "much shorter". Making it sound like his career lasted like 4 years.

Barrington played two tests in 1955 and then didnt play any test cricket until 1959. His actual career was basically the decade from 1959 to 1968. This is indeed much shorter than most ATG careers.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Allan Border faced all of....

Marshall
Holding
Roberts
Ambrose
Walsh
Hadlee
Imran
Waqar
Wasim
Willis
Botham
Kapil Dev

Has there been another batsman who has faced a more star studded line-up of pace bowlers and still averaged 50+?

If there is then I can’t think of any right now.

Sachin played against

Hadlee

Imran

Akram
Steyn
McGrath
Donald
Ambrose
Waquar
Warne
Murali
Walsh
Pollock, Akthar, Anderson..


And averaged 59+ for an 18 year stretch ?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Tendulkar never faced Marshall in tests. Was a last minute decision to not play him against WI in 89 I think.

 

[Coronis]

Barrington

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Tendulkar never faced Marshall in tests. Was a last minute decision to not play him against WI in 89 I think.

Yes.
He was ready.. But the selectors were not confident due to his tender age.

 

[Bitmap]

Border