The Better Player: Ravi Ashwin vs. Shaun Pollock

[Slifer]

A combined side of 2004 + Current( assuming playing Aus)

Sehwag
Rohit
Pujara
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Bumrah
Umesh ( was excellent in 2017 series )

Against

Hayden
Warner
Smith
Martyn
Clarke
Lehmann
Gilchrist
Lyon
Gillespie
Cummins
Mcgrath

Warner sucks vs India. Better to go with Langer imo. Home/away. Neither team is beating the other away imo. Curious to know what the scoreline would be for the home wins. My opinion: India to edge Australia 2-1 at home. In Australia maybe the same.

 

[sunilz]

A combined side of 2004 + Current( assuming playing Aus)

Sehwag
Rohit
Pujara
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Bumrah
Umesh ( was excellent in 2017 series )

Against

Hayden
Warner
Smith
Martyn
Clarke
Lehmann
Gilchrist
Lyon
Gillespie
Cummins
Mcgrath

Also adding SA side of last 31 years

Smith
Kirsten
Amla
Kallis
Devilliers
Klusener
Boucher
Pollock
Maharaj
Steyn
Donald

 

[honestbharani]

I guess statsgurushakerz still has issues figuring out that cricket is an actual sport played by human beings and there are two teams and how one team does actually depends on the other and vice versa.

Dravid, form of his life going into 2004 - almost as if his 3 best seasons were behind him and it was the start of a new season. I would love to see how his form was deciphered when this was the first test of the season for the entire side and so many were injured/carrying injuries. Its also the early winter part of the season than the late spring which is usually when Australia visit.

Its interesting to consider this though, Australia won here when they played the Sep/Oct part of the season and never when they play the Feb/March part of the season.

 

[The Sean]

There can be surely no better illustration of how underappreciated Shaun Pollock is than the fact that he can barely get a mention in a thread where his name is literally in the title.

 

[honestbharani]

I honestly feel bad for Pollock coz even apart from all his cricketing talents and achievements, he always gets big points for handling probably the toughest period a captain can handle for a sports side. Taking over after a beloved leader was found to be a match fixer and fixing up the side to a level that they kept being in the top 3 all the time is no mean feat as a captain esp. as a bowling captain.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That series was in the middle of Dravid's peak, I dont remember him having any slumps at the time. Imo he and VVS got owned by a great gameplan by the aussies that really strangled them for runs. They each played 2-3 decent innings that series which in the presence of Tendulkar or a Ganguly who could actually bat (was basically a tailender that series) at the other end probably would have turned into big scores. In the midst of a collapse they just couldn't do it.

 

[subshakerz]

It has been well established by now that Dravid struggled against McGrath/Warne unlike Pujara in current team who has played a crucial role in winning series against Aus 3 consecutive times ( Aus had their full strength attack in all the 3 series). So, only Sehwag , Tendulkar and Laxman of that 2004 side will make a full strength current Indian side .

Really? Peak Dravid doesn't make the current Indian side?

 

[ankitj]

statsgurushakerz

Like his username wasn't hard enough to type already

 

[subshakerz]

I honestly feel bad for Pollock coz even apart from all his cricketing talents and achievements, he always gets big points for handling probably the toughest period a captain can handle for a sports side. Taking over after a beloved leader was found to be a match fixer and fixing up the side to a level that they kept being in the top 3 all the time is no mean feat as a captain esp. as a bowling captain.

Pollock wasn't that bad of a captain but it was too much burden to bear. Sadly unlike Kallis, Pollock didn't get his due after retirement.

 

[subshakerz]

A combined side of 2004 + Current( assuming playing Aus)

Sehwag
Rohit
Pujara
Tendulkar
Kohli
Laxman
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Bumrah
Umesh ( was excellent in 2017 series )

Against

Hayden
Warner
Smith
Martyn
Clarke
Lehmann
Gilchrist
Lyon
Gillespie
Cummins
Mcgrath

Warner and Lyon don't belong there.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Really? Peak Dravid doesn't make the current Indian side?

Dravid and VVS in their worst slumps probably walk into this current Indian middle order. We have 3 dudes averaging mid 20s over a two year period ffs.

 

[subshakerz]

McGrath+Cummins would destroy India in Australia.Ashwin+Jadeja would destroy Australia in India.

Australia aren't getting destroyed in any conditions.

 

[sunilz]

Really? Peak Dravid doesn't make the current Indian side?

Against Aus, absolutely no.

I think Pujara at his peak was better player of spin than Dravid . What is the opinion of other members?

 

[subshakerz]

India's batting in the late 90s/2000s at home faced McGrath, Warne, Pollock, Donald, Steyn, Murali, Shoaib, Wasim, Saqlain, Swann and others.

The Kohli side hasn't faced anything near that level of quality at home. So I'm not convinced that they are this unbeatable team they are hyped up to be.

 

[subshakerz]

Back on Ashwin vs Pollock, I am glad that Pollock is getting credit based on the poll numbers.

Pollock was often characterized as a poor man's McGrath but I think if he wasn't from SA he would have been rated higher. I am actually curious why he wasn't put higher on a pedestal compared to Donald in the late 90s as he was excellent everywhere.

 

[sunilz]

Considering how we played Herath , I have no doubt we would have done well against Saqlain/Swann .

Saqlain for all his hype was outbowled by Kumble in 1999 /04 test series. He would be no match to Jadeja/Ashwin

 

[subshakerz]

Pollock did have frankly one of the worst looking bowling actions in my time watching cricket though.

 

[subshakerz]

Considering how we played Herath , I have no doubt we would have done well against Saqlain/Swann .

Saqlain for all his hype was outbowled by Kumble in 1999 /04 test series. He would be no match to Jadeja/Ashwin

Saqlain was excellent in 1999 playing away from home. 2004 he was injured, out of sorts and promptly retired.

Just to compare, the best spinner Kohli's side has faced is Lyon in 2017 and he put the batting under real pressure. So I am inclined to think Saqlain and Swann would do well.

 

[_00_deathscar]

India's batting in the late 90s/2000s at home faced McGrath, Warne, Pollock, Donald, Steyn, Murali, Shoaib, Wasim, Saqlain, Swann and others.

The Kohli side hasn't faced anything near that level of quality at home. So I'm not convinced that they are this unbeatable team they are hyped up to be.

And the GOAT Aussie side got ****ed over by a mediocre player in Harbhajan and our batsman being the second best bowler.

In Indian conditions they Australia side have never faced anything close to a triple attack of Ashwin/Jadeja/Axar.

Dont forget the massive key difference too - previously our spinners were good but our pace bowlers would still be slightly worse, at best, than opposition pace bowlers and at worst, much, much worse.

Now ours are as good/quite a fair bit better. It’s relentless pressure.

 

[honestbharani]

Dravid and VVS in their worst slumps probably walk into this current Indian middle order. We have 3 dudes averaging mid 20s over a two year period ffs.

I dunno if our stats bending members can run some numbers but two years is often misleading. I think it is something like 10 tests or so for Virat and probably 20 for Pujara. Rahane's is longer I guess inspite of the blip of the MCG 100. But I think Dravid was in worse form for more than 20 tests for sure and VVS may have been too.