***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[SteveNZ]

He is though. Imagine the utter gall of the selectors to drop Taylor before he wants to go out triumphantly at home.

Mitchell or whoever coming in. There would have been riots in the streets.

Drop Nicholls before Taylor. The Boss goes out, bat in hand.

I don't think he is.

No one is bigger than the need to win the next Test or series. Obviously there's a vast importance in how you'd do it, but if Ross Taylor isn't in our best XI and is no longer able to make the contribution to our side that we require, he'd need to be left out. If you want to make WTC finals, you've got to not only put your best side out, but be building towards winning Tests over the next 24 months, too.

Given Kane isn't likely to play this summer, there's probably a reprieve for Ross. Regardless of how poorly he's playing, you don't want both of those guys to not play - especially against SA. But past that, the question becomes who is the best equipped to score runs for NZ, now and into the future? And there's a fair chance that is 29-year-old Will Young, not 38-year-old Ross Taylor.

If Nicholls is being dropped, his spot goes to Mitchell at 5.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

When's the last time a player from the losing side got POTM?

When NZ beat Australia in Hobart in 2011 motm went to David Warner who scored an unbeaten century instead of Doug Bracewell who took 6 2nd innings wickets (9 in the match) to bowl NZ to victory.

Don't know if that was the last time though

 

[honestbharani]

 

[honestbharani]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467813592187629570

?

 

[thundaboult]

That boyo ajaz rules

 

[straw man]

It would be detrimental to the long term welfare and health of New Zealand cricket in New Zealand if Ross was dropped for the second test.
The damage would be worse far far worse than a test loss.
It would also be damaging and controversial for team morale leading to a fractious environment not conducive to us going on a winning run at home.
Happy teams are successful. Successful teams are happy. It is a complex interdynamic.
The number of junior enrolments in cricket you get each year is based on winning and also positive press.
And that above analysis is only based on a micro basis without getting into the need for leadership decisions overall to have integrity at their core as an end unto itself. As that is how most good business leaders operate. They make ethical decisions even if there is no immediate payback from a corporate performance perspective.

Should've just dropped Taylor as a horses-for-courses selection. It happens to bowlers all the time, look at Wagner. Look at Ajaz at home. #BowlersRights #BattersProtectedSpecies

 

[Xix2565]

What you say is all very true and we'll never really know if Ajaz actually bowled better or not than Ashwin or Siraj.

Siraj - 3/32 at an average of 10.67
Ashwin - 8/42 at an average of 5.25
Ajaz - 14/225 at an average of 16.07

 

[Hurricane2]

Should've just dropped Taylor as a horses-for-courses selection. It happens to bowlers all the time, look at Wagner. Look at Ajaz at home. #BowlersRights #BattersProtectedSpecies

He’a completely cooked everywhere
He isn’t a horse for any course
Had he been dropped for the 2nd test the logical extension, would be to drop him forever.
Good reply though strawman

 

[Hurricane2]

I want to say something else that only Ashley Bach and Athlai will resonate with
The logical decision was to drop Taylor
But the emotionally intelligent decision or answer is to keep him until he retires of his own choice very shortly.
Being logical is not always the correct approach to management decisions. Having a robot for a boss or manager at work would be terrible as all the decisions would be correct logically and make the company more revenue and lead to efficiency improvements but the decisions would also be cold hearted and in that company and lead to no one wanting to work there.
Good management derives a balance between logic or what we call in business task orientation or task completion focus vs emotional intelligence / relationship management and wellbeing and staff morale considerations.
Cricket teams like businesses must juggle multiple priorities in the decision making process and not single mindedly focus on logic for the above reasons and parralells.

 

[Daemon]

I want to say something else that only Ashley Bach and Athlai will resonate with
The logical decision was to drop Taylor
But the emotionally intelligent decision or answer is to keep him until he retires of his own choice very shortly.
Being logical is not always the correct approach to management decisions. Having a robot for a boss or manager at work would be terrible as all the decisions would be correct logically and make the company more revenue and lead to efficiency improvements but the decisions would also be cold hearted and in that company and lead to no one wanting to work there.
Good management derives a balance between logic or what we call in business task orientation or task completion focus vs emotional intelligence / relationship management and wellbeing and staff morale considerations.
Cricket teams like businesses must juggle multiple priorities in the decision making process and not single mindedly focus on logic for the above reasons and parralells.

Well said. It’s like the decision for Paine to step down. Isn’t right or fair but he just can’t be captain anymore with pictures of his penis floating around the internet.

 

[Hurricane2]

Well said. It’s like the decision for Paine to step down. Isn’t right or fair but he just can’t be captain anymore with pictures of his penis floating around the internet.

Very funny
Lol
Thanks for the chuckle as I had a hard day.

 

[Bahnz]

He’a completely cooked everywhere
He isn’t a horse for any course
Had he been dropped for the 2nd test the logical extension, would be to drop him forever.
Good reply though strawman

Nah he’s not. He scored 80 at Edbason v a full strength England attack and chipped in handily v India in the final. Also made a handy 80 in the first test v Pakistan last year. He can still offer something when he’s in his comfort zone conditions wise. But in the sub continent (and India in particular) he’s been a liability for a while.

 

[Athlai]

I don't agree that it's all a retirement tour for Ross. I genuinely would've dropped Nicholls before Ross. I'd drop neither. Even if Conway was available (Young misses out)

 

[Hurricane2]

Nah he’s not. He scored 80 at Edbason v a full strength England attack and chipped in handily v India in the final. Also made a handy 80 in the first test v Pakistan last year. He can still offer something when he’s in his comfort zone conditions wise. But in the sub continent (and India in particular) he’s been a liability for a while.

Good post
I will post his last 15 innings from cricinfo query when I am at a computer and off my phone as I think by memory there were a fair few failures in amongst those good knocks you mention.
However I don’t trust my memory. So will get back to you shortly once I check.

 

[Flem274*]

Taylor's going to absolutely butcher the Bangers. Not sure how he will go against SA in NZ, because I think he's spent a fair bit of those tours injured. In SA he was obviously bad from his 4 tests there (2 his debut series, 2 in about 2016? He missed the meme tour for obvious reasons).

 

[ashley bach]

That Australian team was **** tbf. Playing on flatties that only became minefields whenever McGrath/Warne began bowling. Frauds couldn't even win after enforcing a follow on. And then that's not even getting into the crybaby, petulant behaviour that they think was "winning" mentality. Wonder why teams even bothered to play them then, clearly a disgraceful team not worth the time.

I missed this post earlier.
While it's all good fun and games to take the piss out of and torment the Aussies(I've lived there for years until recently and was able to do it everyday)
at the end of the day it is just that, fun and games.
If what you say about that team is for real(and it certainly sounds like that the way you wrote) don't you think it's going to be difficult
for fellow posters to take your cricketing opinions seriously?
McGrath, Warne, Gillchrist, Ponting......
Yeah coming to think of it, these fellas were pretty average...

 

[Xix2565]

I missed this post earlier.
While it's all good fun and games to take the piss out of and torment the Aussies(I've lived there for years until recently and was able to do it everyday)
at the end of the day it is just that, fun and games.
If what you say about that team is for real(and it certainly sounds like that the way you wrote) don't you think it's going to be difficult
for fellow posters to take your cricketing opinions seriously?
McGrath, Warne, Gillchrist, Ponting......
Yeah coming to think of it, these fellas were pretty average...

Clearly not getting the message here I guess. Which to be fair to you is about your standard considering you've barely scratched at logic and sensibility in your posting here.

 

[SteveNZ]

Taylor's going to absolutely butcher the Bangers. Not sure how he will go against SA in NZ, because I think he's spent a fair bit of those tours injured. In SA he was obviously bad from his 4 tests there (2 his debut series, 2 in about 2016? He missed the meme tour for obvious reasons).

Not sure he will. I know it's Dhaka, but Bangladesh have played 3 spinners in this series v Pakistan, and if there's anything in the decks in NZ, Ross isn't going to play a patience game. Technically I don't think he can anymore.

And yeah, I reckon Nortje, Rabada etc will fancy it too.

 

[Bijed]

Nah he’s not. He scored 80 at Edbason v a full strength England attack and chipped in handily v India in the final. Also made a handy 80 in the first test v Pakistan last year. He can still offer something when he’s in his comfort zone conditions wise. But in the sub continent (and India in particular) he’s been a liability for a while.

I've been a fan of Taylor, but if his best appears to have been reduced to good (but not great) performances in his comfort zone, given that he's 37, the line probably has to be drawn very soon imo, although I'll concede that the potential for Williamson to not be there should factor in. In a team with worse batting stocks, I wouldn't be against keeping him on but you do seem to have options who are quite likely to be better for the next few years

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Strong Indian batting line up ?

I wonder what Ganguly would had achieved with Sachin, Dravid, Laxman and co if he had a couple of quality pace bowlers. The current batting lineup is nowhere close to those guys, we just couldn't do well in SENA coz we didn't have the pacers to exploit those conditions. An injury-prone Zaheer was an exception, but even if we had a couple of guys like Bhuvi/Umesh if not Shami/Bumrah we would have done so much better and the contest with the strong Aussie side of that time would have been interesting.