***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

[honestbharani]

Why are we even arguing about Ajaz's performance? Even if you assume he was gifted 10 wickets (and he was not, he bowled bloody well to earn each one of those, yes, even Siraj, who could not be dismissed in similar conditions in Chennai earlier this year by England) - I mean, I can see why they gave the award to Mayank, I honestly think Ajaz would have been too dejected to even take the award. The biggest pity about his performance was the fact that they could not interview him immediately after, and had to interview him at tea, by when NZ were already like 38-6 or whatever. Guy was in no mood to enjoy his milestone and talk. But it is one of the greatest bowling performances of all time. Its not like any other 7 fer or 8 fer were all taken with great balls, many of those would have included bad shots by batsmen too.

I understand why they gave the award to Agarwal, I also see the point for those who argue Ajaz could have got it. In the end, I feel its a marginal decision and you cant complain much either way. And I really dont think we should downplay what an amazing achievement and feat it was by Ajaz to get those wickets on that track. If you think you can keep Indian batsmen to less than 3 RPO and get them all out on your own on a red soil turner in Mumbai, I would like to have some of what you are having. This is an unprecedented achievement, make no mistake. Its not like he took 7 wickets and then we declared. He actually bowled the entire side out. Come on, FFS. That is as amazing as any achievement in cricket, no matter how many runs he gave away, and he did not give away that many in the first place.

 

[Hurricane2]

Ross Taylor is NZ cricketing royalty, but a test win (let alone a first ever series in India) always comes before thinking of an individual. He could've just been not selected and had an 'injury' like Rahane.

It would be detrimental to the long term welfare and health of New Zealand cricket in New Zealand if Ross was dropped for the second test.
The damage would be worse far far worse than a test loss.
It would also be damaging and controversial for team morale leading to a fractious environment not conducive to us going on a winning run at home.
Happy teams are successful. Successful teams are happy. It is a complex interdynamic.
The number of junior enrolments in cricket you get each year is based on winning and also positive press.
And that above analysis is only based on a micro basis without getting into the need for leadership decisions overall to have integrity at their core as an end unto itself. As that is how most good business leaders operate. They make ethical decisions even if there is no immediate payback from a corporate performance perspective.

 

[Flem274*]

Well yeah that's because you're dropping taylor with the subtlety of hesson.

players have been pulled for a game to 'fix up technique' before and come back a few games later no harm done. tell the media you're pulling the boss for that then play him in the home summer. it's fine.

also whoever said Jamieson crashed to Earth was optimistic or pessimistic nationality dependent tstl. he had a quiet game, didn't go at 5s, and bowled well in Kanpur. For a first effort in hostile conditions it was promising tbh. remember the first steps Southee, Boult and Wagner took away from pace friendly conditions? It was ugly.

 

[Flem274*]

Why are we even arguing about Ajaz's performance? Even if you assume he was gifted 10 wickets (and he was not, he bowled bloody well to earn each one of those, yes, even Siraj, who could not be dismissed in similar conditions in Chennai earlier this year by England) - I mean, I can see why they gave the award to Mayank, I honestly think Ajaz would have been too dejected to even take the award. The biggest pity about his performance was the fact that they could not interview him immediately after, and had to interview him at tea, by when NZ were already like 38-6 or whatever. Guy was in no mood to enjoy his milestone and talk. But it is one of the greatest bowling performances of all time. Its not like any other 7 fer or 8 fer were all taken with great balls, many of those would have included bad shots by batsmen too.

I understand why they gave the award to Agarwal, I also see the point for those who argue Ajaz could have got it. In the end, I feel its a marginal decision and you cant complain much either way. And I really dont think we should downplay what an amazing achievement and feat it was by Ajaz to get those wickets on that track. If you think you can keep Indian batsmen to less than 3 RPO and get them all out on your own on a red soil turner in Mumbai, I would like to have some of what you are having. This is an unprecedented achievement, make no mistake. Its not like he took 7 wickets and then we declared. He actually bowled the entire side out. Come on, FFS. That is as amazing as any achievement in cricket, no matter how many runs he gave away, and he did not give away that many in the first place.

yeah this. Agarwal was probably the difference. India's middle order when the game was live did not do India any favours. If Agarwal goes early and India collpase, NZ are more confident even if the batting goes to **** again.

 

[honestbharani]

Jamieson's issue is not talent, potential or even ability at this point. The only thing you have to worry about him is how his body can cope all this cricket, especially as he starts playing the T20 leagues. Otherwise, he is all class.

 

[Athlai]

Jamieson knows mate, that's why he bowled so poorly in the IPL. Get that t20 money for a whole career and only play 1 season. Blokes a genius

 

[centurymaker]

Yeah the annual adjustment thing seems to always screw India

For NZ, at the annual update, the 3 series wins vs Pak, SL and Ban in top highlighted bracket will drop off completely.

And Wins against WI and Pak in 2020/21 will go down to 50% weightage. I think it is safe to say that NZ will lose at least a few points at the update in May.




India's one-off win over Afghan, 4-1 defeat vs Eng, and wins over WI & Aus (2-1) will drop off completely.

Meanwhile, the recent 2020/21 wins over England 3-1 and Australia 2-1 will drop down to 50% in weightage.

Lets see how this will affect the rating. India was No.1 when they lost to England heavily in 2018, so they definitely lost A LOT of points then, while a series win vs Australia in 18/19 will have earned some points, these will drop off completely and then series wins against Eng and Aus will have earned several points again and they will be reduced to 50%. Net effect will be India will lose a few points.

I think NZ and India will both drop points, similar amount of points. Australia may benefit from this and reclaim top spot especially if they win well in the Ashes.

 

[honestbharani]

Jamieson knows mate, that's why he bowled so poorly in the IPL. Get that t20 money for a whole career and only play 1 season. Blokes a genius

Lol... but he will get greedy. They all do.

 

[Bahnz]

He is though. Imagine the utter gall of the selectors to drop Taylor before he wants to go out triumphantly at home.

Mitchell or whoever coming in. There would have been riots in the streets.

Drop Nicholls before Taylor. The Boss goes out, bat in hand.

Nicholls actually scored runs though! Not a big score admittedly, but he was in the middle of a typical Nicholls scrappy innings before the side collapsed around him. Taylor batted like Southee would've if he spotted a hot chick on the boundary and was in the mood to try and show off. Or he batted like Chris Martin would if he tried to play a forward defense.

Like, I get the love for him, but neither he nor anyone else in the team has the right to be selected regardless of how unlikely they are to actually succeed.

 

[ashley bach]

It would be detrimental to the long term welfare and health of New Zealand cricket in New Zealand if Ross was dropped for the second test.
The damage would be worse far far worse than a test loss.
It would also be damaging and controversial for team morale leading to a fractious environment not conducive to us going on a winning run at home.
Happy teams are successful. Successful teams are happy. It is a complex interdynamic.
The number of junior enrolments in cricket you get each year is based on winning and also positive press.
And that above analysis is only based on a micro basis without getting into the need for leadership decisions overall to have integrity at their core as an end unto itself. As that is how most good business leaders operate. They make ethical decisions even if there is no immediate payback from a corporate performance perspective.

Absolutely right on the money.
Sometimes it's not all about the cricket, psychology can play a big role,not just for individuals but teams as well.

 

[_00_deathscar]

India's middle order when the game was live did not do India any favours.

This could be in any thread in the last 24 months.

 

[ashley bach]

Dude if you are going to argue something at least be balanced about it. India were missing six front line players in Kanpur and Mumbai so the whole nz didn't have Conway and boult so can be excused doesn't cut it.

Likewise the whole tiredness excuse is lame - India have played more cricket of late than nz.
Man up and admit NZ were not good enough in this series.

Perhaps you didn't read the initial post that clearly.
The whole comment about NZ being the most fake champs of all time, appeared to be a wee bit harsh.
Why not take the opportunity to balance the ledger with some straight out indisputable facts, especially given there were plenty of them.
If you decide to give a bit of stick, shouldn't you be prepared to receive some? you know, tittle for tattle?
Of course it was biased otherwise what would the point in posting be!!
Congratulations to India, the worlds best team, on their crushing display against the Blackcaps.
So yeah, no problems manning up mate, besides, India are my second fav team in the world!

 

[cnerd123]

I think NZ and India will both drop points, similar amount of points. Australia may benefit from this and reclaim top spot especially if they win well in the Ashes.

Then they'll be Test #1 and the WT20 Champs. Truly the darkest timeline.

 

[ashley bach]

I'm not usually too concerned about who gets man of the match, but on this occasion I think AJAZ was ROBBED BLIND.
Giving it to someone who was on the winning side should have no bearing, which is why it's called ''man'' of the match.
It's an award that's usually relatively easy to determine,and seldom is it that hard to call. If it is, probably it should go to the player
on the winning team. It was a sensational batting display from MAYANK throughout the test, and the performance would usually
snap up the award. People keep talking about Ajax getting the big 10. But the fact is it didn't stop there, he got another 4 and was
only stopped short there because of the declaration, it could of been a few or couple more.
What MAYANK did was brilliant, but it's an every 2-3 day occurrence in test cricket.
What AJAZ did was not such an occurrence, in fact it was exactly a 2-3 in a life time.
Surely wasn't this one of the easiest decisions to make in test cricket history?
I'm afraid will have to agree with an earlier post that suggests that there were some large wagers riding on the award.
If that's so, you can be sure the gentleman that decides the award, will be first in line for his $$$$$$
Of course this is almost certainly not true(we hope)but sadly, these days you just never know for sure.

 

[srbhkshk]

I have no intentions of undermining the magnitude of Ajaz Patel (Will proceed to do so anyway) and if I was deciding the MoM he would have got it, but to be very frank - Kumble and Laker were the clear standout bowlers in the matches they took 10 in, I am not sure you can make a convincing case that Ajaz actually bowled any better than Ashwin or Siraj, whereas Mayank was clearly the best batsman of the game by miles.

 

[ashley bach]

I have no intentions of undermining the magnitude of Ajaz Patel (Will proceed to do so anyway) and if I was deciding the MoM he would have got it, but to be very frank - Kumble and Laker were the clear standout bowlers in the matches they took 10 in, I am not sure you can make a convincing case that Ajaz actually bowled any better than Ashwin or Siraj, whereas Mayank was clearly the best batsman of the game by miles.

LOL so you do have intentions!
What you say is all very true and we'll never really know if Ajaz actually bowled better or not than Ashwin or Siraj.
However, apart from the the raw statistical evidence in the match, there are 2 vital pieces to the script.
1. MAYANK scored his runs in home conditions, against an unusually lacklustre NZ attack.
2. AJAZ got his haul of wickets away from home, against an extremely strong Indian batting lineup.

 

[sunilz]

Strong Indian batting line up ?

 

[ashley bach]

Strong Indian batting line up ?

Yeah OK OK, maybe not their best, but for me any Indian batting lineup at home is ''strong''.
It was certainly a heck of a lot stronger than the out of form NZ batsman, who were mostly totally away with the ferries.

 

[cnerd123]

When's the last time a player from the losing side got POTM?

 

[h_hurricane]

Yeah OK OK, maybe not their best, but for me any Indian batting lineup at home is ''strong''.
It was certainly a heck of a lot stronger than the out of form NZ batsman, who were mostly totally away with the ferries.

India's best home batsman of the last 2-3 years was rested for this series. The captain hasn't scored a hundred in any format for longer than the current pandemic existed. The 2 experienced middle order batsmen supporting him have been on terminal decline for a long time. Our wicket keeper batsman, the hand behind many memorable victories in the recent past was rested as well.

Still a strong batting lineup ? lol.