Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

[Migara]

Ashwin is behind only Murali when it comes to being unplayable in his own conditions. But that doesnt mean a lot when the same bowler is incapable of winning matches outside of spinning pitches or weak opposition.

In fact, his great record in India only highlights how dependent he is on conditions to be penetrative. ATGs should be a threat in most if not all conditions.

Whereas in your book, an excellent record in spinning conditions is enough to make up for an average away record and call him an ATG.

Nope, he is the most unplayable in home conditions, possibly with Jadeja. Murali excelled on conditions where others couldn't spin it much.

 

[TheJediBrah]

ATGs should be by definition not HTBs. You cant stake your claim for greatness based exclusively on your performance in one country. It doesnt make any sense.

Agree, how is this not common sense?

If Ashwin can play another 3-4 years and average sub-25 outside Asia in that time then he could well and truly make a strong claim to being an ATG

 

[Nikhil99.94]

Given the batting abilities of these two, India can play three seamers. They just want to clear up the mess in their top order.

This would be my team-

Gavasker
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
kohli(c)
Dev
Jadeja
Engineer(wk)
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah

 

[subshakerz]

Nope, he is the most unplayable in home conditions, possibly with Jadeja. Murali excelledon conditions where others couldn't spin it much.

Murali takes nearly 7 wickets a test at home at a sub-20 average. Even Ashwin cant match that.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Murali takes nearly 7 wickets a test at home at a sub-20 average. Even Ashwin cant match that.

Come on that's a silly point (not the fielding position). Murali had **** all competition for wickets and bowled nearly half his team's overs and Ashwin has Jadeja who is about equally as good a spinner. Wickets per test is meaningless in this comparison.

 

[Migara]

Murali takes nearly 7 wickets a test at home at a sub-20 average. Even Ashwin cant match that.

His WPM doesn't change as much as Ashwin's on conditions. And most of home wickts were not due to unplayable deliveries, rather batsmen being set up and causing hara kiri.

 

[subshakerz]

I would take Murali over Ashwin on a spinning wicket but I admit its a tight call. The point is on other wickets Ashwin wont win me a match.

 

[anil1405]

A poll for this thread would've been good. Majority here aren't claiming that he is an ATG but could be based on his performances in the next 3-4 years.

His performances overseas have got better but not to an extent where he is in the league of those top spinners. So next tours to these countries (and provided he plays under a skipper who supports him) will determine which side of the fence he would be placed in.

One aspect he needs to work on is his fitness which is on a downgrade as it stands.

 

[Migara]

I would take Murali over Ashwin on a spinning wicket but I admit its a tight call. The point is on other wickets Ashwin wont win me a match.

Can take both. Murali will look after RHB while Ashwin will look after LHB. However Murali became less useful when the pitch starts turning square. Everything was turning square for him on those pitches, even the ones spun less, and hence was not in control of what the ball does.

 

[subshakerz]

A poll for this thread would've been good. Majority here aren't claiming that he is an ATG but could be based on his performances in the next 3-4 years.

His performances overseas have got better but not to an extent where he is in the league of those top spinners. So next tours to these countries (and provided he plays under a skipper who supports him) will determine which side of the fence he would be placed in.

One aspect he needs to work on is his fitness which is on a downgrade as it stands.

I think if he can nail the classic spinner's 4th or 5th day matchwinning performances and get his average south of 25 in two out of four SENA countries he would have a decent case to make for ATG. Was thinking he was primed to do it in England this year but he was unlucky not to be picked. Maybe SA.

 

[Arachnodouche]

One aspect he needs to work on is his fitness which is on a downgrade as it stands.

He's certainly been looking leaner than ever these past six months. Think he's also matured as a bowler over the last two seasons to the extent where he isn't trying something new every few deliveries. I have far more confidence in him bowling us to wins abroad now, if he actually gets to play regularly i.e.

 

[Migara]

The difference between Murali and Ashwin are that Murali is a bowler who bowls great spells but less unplayable balls. Ashwin balls lot more unplayable stuff than Murali. May be his height helps.

 

[CricAddict]

This would be my team-

Gavasker
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
kohli(c)
Dev
Jadeja
Engineer(wk)
Ashwin
Shami
Bumrah

Good team but Dhoni has done enough to uproot Engineer. Pant might still replace Dhoni when he retires.

 

[subshakerz]

On a different note, as much as he is perhaps overhyped as a bowler, Ashwin always struck me a decent, gentleman sort of character which I appreciate.

 

[subshakerz]

The difference between Murali and Ashwin are that Murali is a bowler who bowls great spells but less unplayable balls. Ashwin balls lot more unplayable stuff than Murali. May be his height helps.

Doesnt Murali spin it more though and is harder to pick?

 

[honestbharani]

Ashwin is behind only Murali when it comes to being unplayable in his own conditions. But that doesnt mean a lot when the same bowler is incapable of winning matches outside of spinning pitches or weak opposition.

Yeah like post 2015 SENA, I am sure.

You can keep excusing every good performance as a spinning pitch or weak opposition when people who have actually watched the games know it was neither. I mean, if an ATG can be someone who relied on bottle tops and cheating umpires, I feel someone who actually performed and won games at home with neutral umpires and no ball tampering is definitely an ATG. And a better one.

 

[honestbharani]

"I remember in Brisbane, we had to leave Anil out of the game. After the match he came to me and said I want to go back and retire. He had so much pride and was such a champion that sitting out hurt him. I had to somehow hold his hands and say Anil I'll get you to play, don't worry."

Dats not what Ganguly said in his interview on Star Sports. He pretty much said he had to ask Dravid to talk to Kumble coz they were not speaking terms for the number of times he was dropped for Harbhajan.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Dats not what Ganguly said in his interview on Star Sports. He pretty much said he had to ask Dravid to talk to Kumble coz they were not speaking terms for the number of times he was dropped for Harbhajan.

May be that happened too!

But we are moving away from the key point here, Dada did back the players who had the talent and created a secure team environment. Even players who were left out for an odd game or two knew that it's a tough call and the captain still had the faith in them.

 

[Migara]

Doesnt Murali spin it more though and is harder to pick?

Harder to pick, bit never had bounce (unpredictable) as Ashwin. He didn't have much drift too. He dipped it like a boss though.

 

[ankitj]

When he was unfit and rushed back into the team after his shoulder injury.

Yeah, that is well established. Warne was injured for 3/4th of his career.