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Imran vs Wasim
- Thread starter kyear2
- Start date
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Guys, stop arguing needlessly.
We all know Imran + Wasim = Imad Wasim.
We all know Imran + Wasim = Imad Wasim.
Gob
International Coach
TheJediBrah
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Finally makes a good point. Picking a left hander for variety is an unnecessary gimmick, you're better off just picking the 3 best fast bowlers. So no Wasim in any ATG team.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Agreed. I never understood that left arm point, especially because you already have Sobers who gives left arm spin and pace, though not as lethal.
It does make sense to pick a reverse swing specialist though.
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Kapil, Mcgrath and Zaheer is a very weak attack.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
What would happen if we all ignored PFK?
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
I can't.
trundler
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kyear2
International Coach
So basically Wasim, Imran or Steyn among the ATGs.
The two recent polls tend to prefer Steyn.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Not really contesting where you place Akram in the ATG list, but the highlighted part intrigues me. How exactly you got it number ?
If you pulled this from cricinfo, it is all crap. Crapinfo says Akram has dismissed 48 batsmen at 1st position at an average of 16.85, 56 batsmen at at 2nd position at an average of 20.57 and 28 batsmen at no.3 at an average of 14.53. It gives you an impression that he dismissed 132 batsmen at an average of 17.93 and you arrive at this conclusion that Akram has the best top order dismissal average of less than 18.
This is where it is all wrong. This statistic only tells you that when Akram dismissed those batsmen, on an average they were batting on 18.
Key points you missed.
1. All those runs scored by those batsmen were not against Akram. It could be against Waqar, Shoaib or any one else. He merely happened to dismiss them at that score.
2. More glaringly, this does not take into account those batsmen whom Wasim did not dismiss during the course of an innings. For instance, an opposition batsman could score 200* against Pakistan and lets say 50 of those against Akram. Because he did not dismiss him, those runs do not come up against him in this stat, which is absolute bull***t.
A real time example below.
Brendon McCullum scored a triple hundred against India in 2014 and was dismissed by Zaheer Khan on 302. Because poor Zaheer dismissed him, crapinfo says Khan averaged 302 against batsman at no.5 during this test match. As if all those runs were scored against him. And guess what, because Ishant Sharma didn't dismiss him, this pathetic stat says he didn't even bowl at McCullum. Refer below links.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
A few have tried to explain you over the last few days not to use this stat for any player. Hope this refrains you from using this going forward. Unarguably among the worst stats ever in cricinfo and does not tell you a thing.
Last edited:
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
Kudos for trying @h_hurricane
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Ok, i was already aware about the 2nd point, but i didn't knew how they are calculating the average. Thank you for the explanation.Not really contesting where you place Akram in the ATG list, but the highlighted part intrigues me. How exactly you got it number ?
If you pulled this from cricinfo, it is all crap. Crapinfo says Akram has dismissed 48 batsmen at 1st position at an average of 16.85, 56 batsmen at at 2nd position at an average of 20.57 and 28 batsmen at no.3 at an average of 14.53. It gives you an impression that he dismissed 132 batsmen at an average of 17.93 and you arrive at this conclusion that Akram has the best top order dismissal average of less than 18.
This is where it is all wrong. This statistic only tells you that when Akram dismissed those batsmen, on an average they were batting on 18.
Key points you missed.
1. All those runs scored by those batsmen were not against Akram. It could be against Waqar, Shoaib or any one else. He merely happened to dismiss them at that score.
2. More glaringly, this does not take into account those batsmen whom Wasim did not dismiss during the course of an innings. For instance, an opposition batsman could score 200* against Pakistan and lets say 50 of those against Akram. Because he did not dismiss him, those runs do not come up against him in this stat, which is absolute bull***t.
A real time example below.
Brendon McCullum scored a triple hundred against India in 2014 and was dismissed by Zaheer Khan on 302. Because poor Zaheer dismissed him, crapinfo says Khan averaged 302 against batsman at no.5 during this test match. As if all those runs were scored against him. And guess what, because Ishant Sharma didn't dismiss him, this pathetic stat says he didn't even bowl at McCullum. Refer below links.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
A few have tried to explain you over the last few days not to use this stat for any player. Hope this refrains you from using this going forward. Unarguably among the worst stats ever in cricinfo and does not tell you a thing.
So on average, Akram dismissed top order batsmen before they reaching 18. Its not a bad thing.. He is getting them early.
It might not be an accurate representation of bowler's quality or may not even close to actual average in terms of relevance.
But i believe it is ok to use against stupid arguments like quality of fielding support doesn't affect bowler's productivity or McGrath was more effective against top order batsmen than Hadlee..because % is more important than actual number of wickets.. Etc
My guess was they are calculating the average based on the runs a batsman scored against the bowler who took his wicket. That would have been a far better method. Thanks again you cleared my doubt.