The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Line and Length]

I can't see how your keepers are ATGs. Have you ever heard of Tallon(named by Bradman as the best of all time), Grout or Engineer. ALL three were far superior as stumpers in their time . Far above who you have chosen.

Fair comment ... to a degree. I rate Knott along with the trio you have named.

 

[Line and Length]

... and he could bat.

 

[Starfighter]

This Don Tallon?

 

[Nikhil99.94]

I can't see how your keepers are ATGs. Have you ever heard of Tallon(named by Bradman as the best of all time), Grout or Engineer. ALL three were far superior as stumpers in their time . Far above who you have chosen.

I know bradman chosed tallon in his all time 11.
Ames and gilchrist were far superior batsman,that’s the main reason,they aren’t atg keepers but were atg wicket keeper batsman,Knott was a atg keeper+could bat as well.

 

[Daemon]

This Don Tallon?

That's a shocker. Tbf though gloves weren't what they are now. Still, the movement is quite poor, literally just stuck his hand out lol.

 

[Nikhil99.94]

That's a shocker. Tbf though gloves weren't what they are now. Still, the movement is quite poor, literally just stuck his hand out lol.

Old field was arguably greatest keeper tho,have seen some of his catches +stumpings it’s incredible,he was called by most of the cricketers who saw him as the greatest even up to 90s,I will choose old field ahead of tallon tbf,if i would choose someone just on the basis of wicket keeping alone my first pick would be old field.
My 4 keepers on the basis of wicket keeping skills alone are-
1.oldfield
2.Russell
3.tallon
4.Knott
As a overall package
1.knott
2.gilchrist
3.ames
4.oldfield

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't know what to make of that clip. Guess the game was very different back then but also strikes me how close they are standing, you'd never see that in the modern game it's either well back or right up to the stumps.

 

[Starfighter]

That's a shocker. Tbf though gloves weren't what they are now. Still, the movement is quite poor, literally just stuck his hand out lol.

I'm ging to stir a hornet's nest here. I've watched about all the available footage there is on the internet of cricket from the forties, fifties and sixties. The standard of wicketkeeping standing back from the stumps and slips catching is distinctly below that of the top teams today. Even though you can often get only short clips of matches it's common enough to see even people who were considered very good in their positions (like Cowdrey in slips) put down extremely straightforward catches, much more so in my opinion than you see these days.

I would agree with the opinion that the best wicketkeepers then were better standing up than these days - I have't seen a modern wicketkeeper as adept as Knott to spin. But even accounting for the fact that gloves now are made of better materials and are better designed, they are just generally less mobile and more likely to try taking the ball in a poor manner as seen in that clip.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm ging to stir a hornet's nest here. I've watched about all the available footage there is on the internet of cricket from the forties, fifties and sixties. The standard of wicketkeeping standing back from the stumps and slips catching is distinctly below that of the top teams today. Even though you can often get only short clips of matches it's common enough to see even people who were considered very good in their positions (like Cowdrey in slips) put down extremely straightforward catches, much more so in my opinion than you see these days.

I would agree with the opinion that the best wicketkeepers then were better standing up than these days - I have't seen a modern wicketkeeper as adept as Knott to spin. But even accounting for the fact that gloves now are made of better materials and are better designed, they are just generally less mobile and more likely to try taking the ball in a poor manner as seen in that clip.

Yeah but why are they standing twice as close as anyone does now? Unless that clip is sped up there was **** all reaction time no one would be able to move cleanly and take that edge comfortably

 

[Daemon]

Guessing the pitches were crap and/or the bowling was not as quick

 

[srbhkshk]

Yeah but why are they standing twice as close as anyone does now? Unless that clip is sped up there was **** all reaction time no one would be able to move cleanly and take that edge comfortably

All the bowlers used to bowl at 115 Kph max.

 

[TheJediBrah]

All the bowlers used to bowl at 115 Kph max.

look at the clip though, there was no reaction time. If that was today the keeper would be twice as far back and have way more time. Only thing I can think of is they were more vigilant at trying to stump the batsmen back then even off the quicks so they got as close as they could

edit: oh yeah and they were defo >>115kph lol

 

[Nikhil99.94]

All the bowlers used to bowl at 115 Kph max.

Lindwall bowling 115???Miller bowling 115??Women cricketer bowl far faster than that?They both were 140-145 ,Its like saying Thompson ,Tyson bowled 125 at max.If lindwall wasn’t 140-145 and Miller 145 and if they were 115,the fastest cricket ball shouldn’t be faster than 125........

 

[bagapath]

2nd xi

Barry

A one series wonder. doesn't belong in this discussion at all. leave alone warranting section above gavaskar, greenidge, hayden, boycott, g smith, sehwag, gooch, langer, anwar... and hudreds of other genuine test match openers who spent years and years on the road playing the best bowlers in the world for at least two generations on various conditions with their own fitness and technique changing over time demanding more out of them to stay on top of their game.

 

[ankitj]

This Don Tallon?

Wow Don Tallon sucks.

 

[Nikhil99.94]

A one series wonder. doesn't belong in this discussion at all. leave alone warranting section above gavaskar, greenidge, hayden, boycott, g smith, sehwag, gooch, langer, anwar... and hudreds of other genuine test match openers who spent years and years on the road playing the best bowlers in the world for at least two generations on various conditions with their own fitness and technique changing over time demanding more out of them to stay on top of their game.

You do know Barry was better than all openers you have mentioned?Barry was among the best opener ever+bradman calls Barry as at least as good as Hutton(who again was easily better than all you have mentioned.)
If I can’t have Barry then-
1st xi would be hobbs,grace
2nd xi would be Hutton,trumper
3rd xi would be sutcliffe,gavasker

 

[srbhkshk]

look at the clip though, there was no reaction time. If that was today the keeper would be twice as far back and have way more time. Only thing I can think of is they were more vigilant at trying to stump the batsmen back then even off the quicks so they got as close as they could

edit: oh yeah and they were defo >>115kph lol

I am half kidding, but that delivery has started to die even when the keeper is that close. Not gonna be many catches if they stand where they stand now.

 

[Xix2565]

You do know Barry was better than all openers you have mentioned?Barry was among the best opener ever+bradman calls Barry as at least as good as Hutton(who again was easily better than all you have mentioned.)
If I can’t have Barry then-
1st xi would be hobbs,grace
2nd xi would be Hutton,trumper
3rd xi would be sutcliffe,gavasker

Barry Richards had such a short career he doesn't deserve mentioning in such topics. Bradman picking Barry is more of an indication of what Bradman liked rather than anything objective.

 

[Line and Length]

The pitches of a bygone era were left uncovered and, as a result, would tend to be softer and have less bounce and carry. Hence the need for the 'keeper/slips to stand closer. This would definitely affect reaction time.

 

[Starfighter]

I think in Lindwall's case it's his round-arm action is the most important, not a lot of lift. It's less pronounced with other bowlers IMO.