The FINAL, Australia v New Zealand (THE BATTLE OF THE MITCHELLS) at the Ring of Fire, Dubai-- 11/14 Sunday (N)

[TheJediBrah]

Which is why post-match celebrations didn't make sense to me . Was surprised to see Australian cricketers crying ( 5 times ODI WC champions)

It doesn't make sense to you because you've never played anything approaching even semi-serious sport and trying to comprehend the emotions of professional cricketers in this stuation would be like a termite trying to understand particle physics.

And I mean that in the best possible way, I've won club premierships in comps where there had been significant money involved for most players and I can only imagine what it would be like at this level of cricket. None of us should be commenting on whether post-match celebrations "make sense" to us, it just makes us look like tools.

 

[duffer]

I have lived in Australia my whole life, and I can genuinely count on one hand the amount of people I have ever known with even a passing interest in rubgy union

It simply isn't remotely a relevant sport here

I grew up in Sydney and only know a select few private school tossers who give a crap. It is a 'niche' sport at best

 

[Burgey]

I recall precisely where I was when that 2010 Aus-Eng final was being played. And it was a very very good night, as another CWer could confirm.

 

[morgieb]

I grew up in Sydney and only know a select few private school tossers who give a crap. It is a 'niche' sport at best

The only person I know that watches it in anything more than a very casual context is my (probable) future brother-in-law.

 

[Burgey]

understand particle physics

Ping @Spark

That's the physicist sorted. Anyone here do pest control?

 

[Gob]

Ping @Spark

That's the physicist sorted. Anyone here do pest control?

Slippy

 

[hendrix]

Easy to say as a lard silo on the couch, but he does have a tendency to go missing when there's pressure on.

It's not the pressure.

He has always been a minnow basher. He hits a cricket ball as if he's playing golf, which is great against the lower tier bowlers but doesn't work against any bowler who knows how to get a bit of lift of a good length.

Not gonna blame Guptill for the loss (I don't really care about t20 internationals anyway).

 

[Flem274*]

It's not the pressure.

He has always been a minnow basher. He hits a cricket ball as if he's playing golf, which is great against the lower tier bowlers but doesn't work against any bowler who knows how to get a bit of lift of a good length.

Not gonna blame Guptill for the loss (I don't really care about t20 internationals anyway).

He's your classic flat track bully. Smoked Starc around the MCG one year on from the 2015 final and rarely passes up the chance to smoke the English around their own grounds.

Against the best sides of his era he averages 34 in ODIs (Eng 47, Aus 34, SA 33, Ind 28). His record is ruined by 'neutral' games where he averages 18, which sounds suspiciously like world tournaments to me. This follows the natural trend of modern power openers with no red ball pedigree being hamstrung when it matters and ODI bowlers start asking test match questions.

His away record is better than his home record against these sides which makes sense because par score in NZ varies wildly depending on atmospheric conditions.

His T20 record is a premium version of the above. He's an ATG in jamt20s, but disappears in world cups, averaging 16.

T20 are considerably more forgiving than ODIs for sliding players through world cups who aren't that good but you're always risking it, as NZ found out with Guptill and Sodhi in the final. Swings and roundabouts though, since real bowlers like Southee can turn it on at random in these higher standard games (though last night looked grim for him).

 

[Prince EWS]

He's your classic flat track bully. Smoked Starc around the MCG one year on from the 2015 final and rarely passes up the chance to smoke the English around their own grounds.

Against the best sides of his era he averages 34 in ODIs (Eng 47, Aus 34, SA 33, Ind 28). His record is ruined by 'neutral' games where he averages 18, which sounds suspiciously like world tournaments to me. This follows the natural trend of modern power openers with no red ball pedigree being hamstrung when it matters and ODI bowlers start asking test match questions.

His away record is better than his home record against these sides which makes sense because par score in NZ varies wildly depending on atmospheric conditions.

His T20 record is a premium version of the above. He's an ATG in jamt20s, but disappears in world cups, averaging 16.

T20 are considerably more forgiving than ODIs for sliding players through world cups who aren't that good but you're always risking it, as NZ found out with Guptill and Sodhi in the final. Swings and roundabouts though, since real bowlers like Southee can turn it on at random in these higher standard games (though last night looked grim for him).

Yeah I think the reason Guptill has struggled in 'big games' isn't the pressure; it's the fact that the good multi-format opening bowlers aren't rested in those. I think he's largely built a career in scoring big in JAMODIs against attacks missing their Test bowlers. I say "largely" because it's not uniformly true - it's a little harsh - but I think it explains his record better than anything else. I don't think he's a choker; he just has technical limitations.

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah I think the reason Guptill has struggled in 'big games' isn't the pressure; it's the fact that the good multi-format opening bowlers aren't rested in those. I think he's largely built a career in scoring big in JAMODIs against attacks missing their Test bowlers. I say "largely" because it's not uniformly true - it's a little harsh - but I think it explains his record better than anything else. I don't think he's a choker; he just has technical limitations.

Agreed. They're not 'huge' limitations, or at least they weren't in his prime, but when he tries to bat 'properly' in world cups he isn't good enough to do it against test level bowling.

In general I think McCullum gets too much credit from the media for 'innovating' aggressive ODI batting. Most of these power bashers are worthless when it matters. McCullum had red ball runs, it's why he was so dangerous in white ball cricket. His best innovation was forcing ODI cricket into test cricket by just refusing to bowl the 5th bowler until well after the 30th and watching the other team panic under the relentless pressure. Until then standard practice was overs 15-35 contained 10-15 overs of gentle filler.

It was a good tactic for a squad with a lot of world class bowling depth but one and a half death bowlers.

 

[_00_deathscar]

When conway injured this was the perfect time o get in reserve like Jamieson in the team to replace sodhi tosday, i dont think Australia would have fancied facing jamieson thunderbolts today

Jamieson got bitch slapped around by random Indian players in the IPL. Australia would have loved him in. He’s **** at T20 (at the moment).

 

[SteveNZ]

Agree completely with this. Guptill is on the wane a bit, but the go-slow was quite deliberate - think it was noted that crease occupation was very much the strategy till the halfway point after which they could go beserk. It may be seen as negative thinking not to go hard from ball one, but most teams would jump at the chance to defend 170 in a WC final and NZ did have the attack for it, apart from Boult they just didn't turn up.

It's been an oddly consistent presence in Gup's career, that I remember a significant amount of games/series' where you have to flip a coin to decide whether Gup is deliberately going slow or just out of form/can't get it off the square.

If it was a tactic, it relied on the second best innings of Kane's T20 career (the nuts innings in the chase against England at Wellington, 2018 being the best) to make it work. 28 off 36 on anything else than a dust bowl just doesn't work for me as a strategy. Yes, we got 172 - but the next 20 times Gup bats that way, we don't.

When you have a completely out of touch Phillips, completely absent of games Seifert, Kane out of touch too and Santner at 7, I'd have to say I'd hate the tactic.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

yeah just to be clear I'm not blaming guptill for the loss but not sure what you're smoking to defend 28 off 35 as a planned innings. Flip those two numbers around and I'd be happy to concede that point.

 

[Moss]

yeah just to be clear I'm not blaming guptill for the loss but not sure what you're smoking to defend 28 off 35 as a planned innings. Flip those two numbers around and I'd be happy to concede that point.

The way I saw it, with Conway out injured and the batting lineup pretty shallow (Santner at 7), Guptill and Kane couldn’t really play with any sort of freedom once Mitchell went early. Was a questionable innings alright in a T20 game but brought on by the circumstances.

 

[SteveNZ]

yeah just to be clear I'm not blaming guptill for the loss but not sure what you're smoking to defend 28 off 35 as a planned innings. Flip those two numbers around and I'd be happy to concede that point.

Yeah, agreed. I'm not blaming him either, it's an 11 person game. But I didn't like the approach. At 16 off 15 when Kane came in, he was OK. But then they sat back on Cummins, Hazelwood and Maxwell as well in his 2nd over. Maybe he was trying to catch up from that point when he slog swept out to Zampa. I acknowledge it's much easier sitting on the couch with a coffee

I thought we were reasonably smart against the bowlers we needed to target - ie Marsh had 11 off his first over, they targeted Starc as someone who misses his lengths,

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah, agreed. I'm not blaming him either, it's an 11 person game. But I didn't like the approach. At 16 off 15 when Kane came in, he was OK. But then they sat back on Cummins, Hazelwood and Maxwell as well in his 2nd over. Maybe he was trying to catch up from that point when he slog swept out to Zampa. I acknowledge it's much easier sitting on the couch with a coffee

I thought we were reasonably smart against the bowlers we needed to target - ie Marsh had 11 off his first over, they targeted Starc as someone who misses his lengths,

while I understand the tactic of having someone drop the anchor after an early wicket I've never understood why we'd make guptill play that role - he's a natural hitter and isn't great at absorbing scoreboard pressure. He's icing which we've spend over a decade trying to turn into cake.

 

[SteveNZ]

Agreed.

I actually think it's not 100% us trying to make him into that - I wonder whether he has the ability mentally to throw caution to the wind. He's had career/position certainly (in white ball cricket) over a decade by playing the way he does, dominating certain attacks etc. I wouldn't like to suggest for a second he has no desire to be the best he can be/leave a legacy, but I've often felt there's a mental block in releasing the shackles a bit when he's out of form/bogged down. Happened in the World Cup - couldn't get it off the square then got to the final and finally tried to be proactive, but got a good one.

 

[thierry henry]

I think there was a certain (pretty low) level of risk that Williamson and Guptill were prepared to take. Our top-heavy batting required us to be cautious. Mitchell did a lot of slogging during the tournament which indicated he was the one guy who was "allowed" to take risks.

28(35) wasn't planned, it was just poor execution within the set parameters. Those parameters didn't include him playing a wild shot and getting out when he got behind the desired rate. They probably would've liked about 70 off 10 instead of 57.

 

[Gnske]

Blame Pakistan, this is their revenge on NZ.

They choke in Limited Overs. Absolutely choke it. Australia, despite being suckholes at T20 cricket and ass backwards have clutched their way to a victory because they love the big stage. Marcus Stoinis a World Champion? I could have told you that.

The fact Australia have won a T20 world cup may just be what finally kills cricket.

 

[honestbharani]

http://instagr.am/p/CWSHAGgNEZo/