2nd greatest living cricketer

[TheJediBrah]

Just a bit too samey for me. Would like Steyn in there somewhere. Even at the expense of Hadlee and his batting, and Marshall and Warne can make up for the batting loss there

It's funny, all this talk about sacrificing bowling skill for lower-order batting and if you pick the best bowlers the tail-end batting is very strong anyway

 

[kyear2]

It's funny, all this talk about sacrificing bowling skill for lower-order batting and if you pick the best bowlers the tail-end batting is very strong anyway

Yup, agreed. But again, Hadlee for McGrath would be tempting if was a real life scenario.

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall and Warne not enough X-factor?

If it's a team for all conditions, anything but a road will suit Hadlee & McGrath more than a Wasim or Steyn. Keep in mind McGrath is the guy who averaged low-20s supposedly playing on some of the flattest home pitches in cricket so it's not like he's useless on a road.

You need a reverse swing specialist to cover all conditions.

 

[subshakerz]

That attack is just missing something. As Gob was saying earlier it needs that xfactor bowler, a Steyn or Wasim who can make things happen on same aforementioned roads or in the SC.

Remember this is an attack for all occasions and conditions

Why consider Wasim over Imran?

 

[subshakerz]

Left arm variety Wasim brings is in an all new level to Sobers though. Is it justifiable for me to think that at best Sobers would be as good a bowler as Nathan Lyon? Obviously being probably the 2nd greatest batsman in addition to his fielding makes him the player that he is but I don't want to rely on his bowling more than what you required from your 5th bowler to bare the workload

Yeah but if the reasoning is that a left armer itself will add variety to the attack then Sobers already covers that in those rare situations when having that option is needed.

 

[subshakerz]

My ATG bowling lineup:

Imran
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

Covers everything without sacrificing on bowling strength or have a strong lower order.

Warne (arguably) the best spinner, Marshall and McGrath the two best pacers, Imran the best bowling-allrounder and ATG reverse swing exponent.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You need a reverse swing specialist to cover all conditions.

But it's a trade off, if you leave out Hadlee/McGrath for Imran/Wasim you have a worse attack in conditions that don't suit reverse

Also is this going to be a ball tampering-friendly ATG team scenario

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

My ATG bowling lineup:

Imran
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

Covers everything without sacrificing on bowling strength or have a strong lower order.

Warne (arguably) the best spinner, Marshall and McGrath the two best pacers, Imran the best bowling-allrounder and ATG reverse swing exponent.

If you want bang-for-buck, Sir Curtly fits in here.

 

[subshakerz]

But it's a trade off, if you leave out Hadlee/McGrath for Imran/Wasim you have a worse attack in conditions that don't suit reverse

Also is this going to be a ball tampering-friendly ATG team scenario

One specialist seamer and one specialist reverser.

 

[subshakerz]

If you want bang-for-buck, Sir Curtly fits in here.

Curtly to me is not as rock solid a bowler for the subcontinent and too similar to McGrath who is slightly better. I prefer each bowler to be an ATG and cover different bases.

Having Marshall. Warne, McGrath and Ambrose is also a pretty weak tail IMO.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Curtly to me is not as rock solid a bowler for the subcontinent and too similar to McGrath who is slightly better. I prefer each bowler to be an ATG and cover different bases.

Having Marshall. Warne, McGrath and Ambrose is also a pretty weak tail IMO.

Fair point, a certain Rubel Hossain fits this category, exceeding well

 

[kyear2]

It's funny, all this talk about sacrificing bowling skill for lower-order batting and if you pick the best bowlers the tail-end batting is very strong anyway

It's just as hard to put together a really good cordon, which is arguably even more important.

Only Sobers is elite out of the standard selections.

To bring in a Smith or Kallis, would do wonders for team balance, but neither is a lock.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's just as hard to put together a really good cordon, which is arguably even more important.

Only Sobers is elite out of the standard selections.

To bring in a Smith or Kallis, would do wonders for team balance, but neither is a lock.

I've put forward the hypothetical before as to whether picking Mark Waugh over Sachin Tendulkar would make a stronger team. I don't necessarily think it would but depending on the rest of the team and where/how well they can field you could make an argument.

 

[kyear2]

Why consider Wasim over Imran?

This has been previously and extensively litigated, and most disagree. But I believe Imran is the most over rated of the ATGs. The disparity of his home and away record makes 0 sense considering his home conditions and clearly speaks to the patriotic umpiring. There was also the ball tampering and even outside of that no one sees him as a top 5 bowler. For me he's borderline top 10, not terrible by any means, but not good enough for the 1st team.


Wasim is highly regarded by his peers and as far as I've seen or read, didn't have the same umpiring cloud that Imran has. But no, he isn't too 5 for me either, but higher than Imran.

 

[subshakerz]

I've put forward the hypothetical before as to whether picking Mark Waugh over Sachin Tendulkar would make a stronger team. I don't necessarily think it would but depending on the rest of the team and where/how well they can field you could make an argument.

It is a funny point, I recall the 90s Australia side under Mark Taylor that seemed a stronger team than its individual players, with odd players contributing as part-time bowlers or in the field at just the right times. I wonder if a team of pure specialists would have been as effective.

 

[subshakerz]

This has been previously and extensively litigated, and most disagree. But I believe Imran is the most over rated of the ATGs. The disparity of his home and away record makes 0 sense considering his home conditions and clearly speaks to the patriotic umpiring. There was also the ball tampering and even outside of that no one sees him as a top 5 bowler. For me he's borderline top 10, not terrible by any means, but not good enough for the 1st team.


Wasim is highly regarded by his peers and as far as I've seen or read, didn't have the same umpiring cloud that Imran has. But no, he isn't too 5 for me either, but higher than Imran.

Okay, you are not alone, I recall Wisden picking Wasim for their XI. As far as peer rating, he is nearly up there with Marshall and Lillee.

 

[Teja.]

Okay, you are not alone, I recall Wisden picking Wasim for their XI. As far as peer rating, he is nearly up there with Marshall and Lillee.

Wasim was incredible in the 90s. Compared to bowlers like McGrath and Ambrose who were ATG for a decade without playing much outside it, Wasim’s overall stats suffer from his first 6 years as a young good but not great quick which should actually be something in his favour but seems to count against him for some weird reason on CW.

Of course, he only played around 65 tests in the 90s due to Pakistan’s schedule but he was still the 3rd highest wicket taker after Walsh and Ambrose in the 90s and even then, he took nearly as many wickets as them.

 

[OverratedSanity]

This has been previously and extensively litigated, and most disagree. But I believe Sobers is the most over rated of the ATGs. The disparity of his home and away record makes 0 sense considering his home conditions and clearly speaks to the patriotic umpiring. He had an average difference of 17 (!) between his home and away record. That's pretty bad. Clearly an unfair home advantage afaic.

 

[_00_deathscar]

lmao what? How many 1% worse bowlers but +20 batting average bowlers compared to McGrath were Australia packing in the day?

They lost them all to Aussie rules and ruggers and other sports

 

[Daemon]

This has been previously and extensively litigated, and most disagree. But I believe KW is the most over rated of the fab 4. The disparity of his home and away record makes 0 sense considering his home conditions and clearly speaks to the patriotic umpiring. He had an average difference of 14 (!) between his home and away record. That's pretty bad. Clearly an unfair home advantage afaic.