Dhoni v Gilchrist

[honestbharani]

I thought we were comparing them purely on their batting record?

The discussion here, yes. But when people are picking in an ATG side, its obviously for the keeper's spot right?

Anyways, I think this has gone on enough. I dont think Gilly was a great ODI batsman. As a wicket keeper bat, sure, but I still think across LO formats and as overall players, MSD is as ahead of Gilly as Gilly is ahead of MSD in tests. And with captaincy and the fact that the OP asks who would you build a team around, the answer to me is clearly MSD.

 

[honestbharani]

Finishers are finishers because they are too **** to be the starters and makers.

Good thing MSD was gun at #3 too then.

 

[Burgey]

who would you build a team around, the answer to me is clearly MSD.

Is the team never leaving Asia?

 

[Victor Ian]

Good thing MSD was gun at #3 too then.

Good thing he was good enough to hold his position there.

 

[sunilz]

Is the team never leaving Asia?

Now you are talking like @stephen

Check their averages in Eng

 

[OverratedSanity]

Dhonis last few years were truly embarrassing. The fact that he played in a way that allowed him to escape with good looking stats despite losing games for the team with shocking regularity is an indictment on odi stats as a concept (spark to jizz). I find it hard to completely ignore this phase of his career because there were several innings I'd classify from my armchair as purely selfish endeavours which protected his own stats while putting his team in a terrible position. It sucks because it's hard to prove how bad he truly was those later years in hindsight because fanboys can easily go "B b b b but he averaged 47 with 88 Sr".

Legitimately much worse to watch than a great batsman like ponting or Tendulkar declining with age.

 

[stephen]

Now you are talking like @stephen

Check their averages in Eng

So he's being articulate and thoughtful? Excellent stuff.

 

[Burgey]

@sunilz Gilchrist averaged 40 in England and Dhoni 37? Dhoni never made a test ton outside Asia. He only made one ton outside India. I don't think he's the bloke to build a side around. Gilchrist also averaged more away than at home. I dunno, if you want to build a side around one of them, I'd be picking the bloke who performed better in more places.

 

[honestbharani]

Is the team never leaving Asia?

Nope, but guess your head isn't.

 

[honestbharani]

@sunilz Gilchrist averaged 40 in England and Dhoni 37? Dhoni never made a test ton outside Asia. He only made one ton outside India. I don't think he's the bloke to build a side around. Gilchrist also averaged more away than at home. I dunno, if you want to build a side around one of them, I'd be picking the bloke who performed better in more places.

And I would go for the guy who captained a side to wins everywhere.

 

[Burgey]

So you can only pick the captain from each side to build a team around? Cool.

 

[sunilz]

@sunilz Gilchrist averaged 40 in England and Dhoni 37? Dhoni never made a test ton outside Asia. He only made one ton outside India. I don't think he's the bloke to build a side around. Gilchrist also averaged more away than at home. I dunno, if you want to build a side around one of them, I'd be picking the bloke who performed better in more places.

You should Dhoni was useless outside Asia and I just showed you his England stats that he can play there .

Regarding rest of your post , I have made myself clear that I don't rate him as test bat.

 

[trundler]

CBF going through the last few pages but a while back someone era adjusted Gilchrist's stats and they came out to a slightly better average than Roy at a strike rate of 120

 

[sunilz]

CBF going through the last few pages but a while back someone era adjusted Gilchrist's stats and they came out to a slightly better average than Roy at a strike rate of 120

That was stephen

 

[Burgey]

CBF going through the last few pages but a while back someone era adjusted Gilchrist's stats and they came out to a slightly better average than Roy at a strike rate of 120

i did this same exercise with standardised averages, and it came out with Gilly averaging 68.4 at a S/R of 209.

 

[Jayro]

There were many openers in Gilly's time who were batter or equally good, it has been discussed how opening has procured leverage even to an ordinary career in ODI's,its arguably a comparatively easy spot for the cherry pickings with fielding restrictions,add that with a solid middle order in a dominating side like Australia and it's a free license, even Shane Watson and many others would have done the job with equally efficiency,have been very few finishers of the game in entire ODI history of the game as MSD was---- picking in an all time eleven, when each other's keeping becomes secondary or cancels it, Gilly will always come secondary option to MSD.

 

[TheJediBrah]

@sunilz Gilchrist averaged 40 in England and Dhoni 37? Dhoni never made a test ton outside Asia. He only made one ton outside India. I don't think he's the bloke to build a side around. Gilchrist also averaged more away than at home. I dunno, if you want to build a side around one of them, I'd be picking the bloke who performed better in more places.

Ignore Tests completely and the comparison is a close one, maybe we should just do that to make certain people ITT happy. Because if you include Tests at even a small weighting it's not even close

 

[Nintendo]

Ignore Tests completely and the comparison is a close one, maybe we should just do that to make certain people ITT happy. Because if you include Tests at even a small weighting it's not even close

Gilly wins if you add test's fairly easily, but claiming there comparible without test's is a bit nonsensical. Gilly was a very good odi opener, but he wasn't one of the greatest, even in his own era. There are very few people (Bevan, buttler, ab) who can truely compare to peak dhoni and the clutch factor finisher he was. Both where **** in t20I and had good IPL records, and dhoni is a more valuable odi cricketer. If i had to pick one for an ODI atg side i would pick dhoni in a heart beat before i pick gilly. Jayasuriya, tendulkar and lara are all players from his era who could come in for him and do just as well, not to mention players from other era's. You can't say the same thing about dhoni.

 

[honestbharani]

So you can only pick the captain from each side to build a team around? Cool.

Having seen 80s Australia, you, of all people, would know this is actually the best way to build a side.

 

[Victor Ian]

Having seen 80s Australia, you, of all people, would know this is actually the best way to build a side.

Dhoni is not that guy. He is like Ponting who inherited a great side. I'd be inclined to pick Ganguly to build a side around before Dhoni.