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Dhoni v Gilchrist

Dhoni v Gilchrist

  • Dhoni

  • Gilchrist

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TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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honestbharani said:
I dont think so at all and assuming what he did was something no one before him did is silly too, AFAIC. And I am not sure if many honestly rated him as a "great" of the ODI format unless its a loose definition of the word.

Anyways, I have already stated why Dhoni is the clear choice given what the OP actually posited.
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it keeps getting worse
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Spark said:
no one thinks of these things in terms of potential
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So you now speak for entire cricketing world? Dude, I said almost half and if you wanna go by number of games, you can do that too. I dont think it was a question if he can be that good, it was more a question of can he continue to be that good. We have people here putting Steve Smith in AT line ups as early as 2015 or 16. How is that any different to having MSD in a ATG World XI by 2008?
 
Daemon

Daemon

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honestbharani said:
ATG SC ODI XIATG RoW ODI XI
SachinGilchrist (wk)
SanathLara
SaeedRichards
ViratPonting (c)
YuviBevan
MSD (c) (wk)AB
ShakibKlusener
KapilPollock
WasimWarne
WaqarStarc
MuraliGarner


As like for like as I could get. Saeed over Javed coz I feel that role can be played by MSD anyways. Needed a leftie in the middle order so Yuvi gets in. Shakib can bat as a floater in that line up and be used as an insurance in case of a collapse. Ideally he would bat 5 if things go well and handle the spinners in the middle overs. Also ensures there are 6 decent options and 2 good part timers to cover the bowling. Won't be too perturbed if Imran gets in ahead of Shakib coz you still get the same bowling options in terms of spin but with an added seamer but there are a lot of times when 4 seamers in ODIs are overkill.

For the Rest of the World side, the sheer quality of having ATGs in both formats in the top 3 has to be amazing. Kluesener and Pollock play as the allrounders as I feel they are still better than Stokes and Flintoff in those roles and given where you would need them to bat. Starc for the variety and Garner is a no-brainer in these ODI sides. Its almost blasphemous to leave out McGrath and Ambrose but if I was picking an actual XI and wanted a certain balance, I think I would compromise on the 1 or 2 run bowling averages and play this side.
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You've literally called him an ATG before, just months ago..

Not sure what's changed but Gilly was definitely a great in the format imo, without a doubt.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
So you now speak for entire cricketing world? Dude, I said almost half and if you wanna go by number of games, you can do that too. I dont think it was a question if he can be that good, it was more a question of can he continue to be that good. We have people here putting Steve Smith in AT line ups as early as 2015 or 16. How is that any different to having MSD in a ATG World XI by 2008?
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Again, have you checked his actual record at the time? It was excellent but it really wasn't the sort of spectacular standout statistical record that you seem to envisage it was. It certainly wasn't a Steve Smith tier outlier.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Daemon said:
You've literally called him an ATG before, just months ago..

Not sure what's changed but Gilly was definitely a great in the format imo, without a doubt.
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Lol.. I said there were ATGs in both formats in the top 3. Lara and Richards. Not all in the top 3. Actually Ponting is an ATG in both formats too.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
As for the potential comment: I don't know, do you pick ATG XIs based on things players might do in the future but haven't actually done yet? Because that would be... novel.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Spark said:
As for the potential comment: I don't know, do you pick ATG XIs based on things players might do in the future but haven't actually done yet? Because that would be... novel.
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I said I used to and I changed around this time. But it does not mean no one else would. Assuming no other fan would pick like that is what is...... novel.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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honestbharani said:
Lol.. I said there were ATGs in both formats in the top 3. Lara and Richards. Not all in the top 3. Actually Ponting is an ATG in both formats too.
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But why would you pick him in such an atg team exercise if you don't think he was worthy of being called great player in the format?
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
I said I used to and I changed around this time. But it does not mean no one else would. Assuming no other fan would pick like that is what is...... novel.
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I mean... I find it really weird that you're going in to bat for a practice that you yourself think is... suboptimal.

Needless to say I do not think judging careers based on what you think they may do in the future (keyword: may) is a very rational way to rate cricketers or judge the career of any sportsman at all.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Spark said:
I mean... I find it really weird that you're going in to bat for a practice that you yourself think is... suboptimal.

Needless to say I do not think this is a very rational way to rate cricketers or judge the career of any sportsman at all.
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I agree and its something I have learned through my time at CW that its not a great idea to compare completed careers against incomplete careers. But I think people still do it and will continue to do it.

And FWIW, here is the record for all ODI batsmen (min 50 innings) from 1 Jan 1997 to 31 March 2008 which was Gilly's career.

MSD at that time, 104 games averaging 46 at a SR of 92.


 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
I agree and its something I have learned through my time at CW that its not a great idea to compare completed careers against incomplete careers. But I think people still do it and will continue to do it.

And FWIW, here is the record for all ODI batsmen (min 50 innings) from 1 Jan 1997 to 31 March 2008 which was Gilly's career.

MSD at that time, 104 games averaging 46 at a SR of 92.


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Yes, indeed, which is an excellent record but decidedly not Steve Smith levels of statistical outlier.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
honestbharani said:
among keepers?
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I thought we were comparing them purely on their batting record? Otherwise there should be absolutely no debate whatsoever whether Gilchrist is an ODI ATG, he's in the top handful of keeper-bats of all time at absolute worst.
 
Victor Ian

Victor Ian

International Coach
Finishers are finishers because they are too **** to be the starters and makers.

I love Bevan, but he was never the best batsman in the Australian team.
 
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