Who is the second best opener of the last half century?

[Arachnodouche]

Who from that list were forced into opening because the team needed them to? Warner an obvious outlier along with Sehwag, though for different reasons, but the rest look like they made a vocation of opening from an early stage? Sidhu, Stewart, Kirsten, Anwar perhaps, but they don't have the numbers.

 

[Flem274*]

Langer was a 3. I don't have the info for every specific player, but it is an observation I've made.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think Langer opened a lot for WA before he ever got selected to bat no. 3 and he was put there because Aus had established openers

 

[Teja.]

It's worth noting that Greenidge had an 18 year career whereas Sehwag, Hayden and Smith had effective test careers of about 10 years. His average of 45~ over 1974-1991 is still better relative to his era compared to what the three jocks achieved in the 00s but even leaving that aside, having double the longevity of the competition should be given a lot of consideration.

The other side of this is that Greenidge in his 10 year 'prime' between 1976 and 1985 (which is about as long as the careers of the biff 3) had much better numbers than his overall ones. He was one of the 4-5 batsman of the time nudging an average of 50 and considered one of the top batsmen of his era a decade into his career. He was still very useful for his team for several years after that but playing on for 7 more years after his peak as a 40 average opener (which was still high quality for the time) has sorta affected how he is viewed on CW I think.

This is Greenidge compared to other openers from 1976 to 1985 with min 1000 runs:

 

[Teja.]

Also, he smashed 214 (242) on the last day to help WI chase 342 in 66 overs on the fifth day against England at Lords in 1984. They were set 78 overs to play out on day 5 and the remaining 21 players would happily have settled for a draw.

Arguably the most brutal innings of all time.

 

[Burgey]

Gavaskar

 

[stephen]

Also, he smashed 214 (242) on the last day to help WI chase 342 in 66 overs on the fifth day against England at Lords in 1984. They were set 78 overs to play out on day 5 and the remaining 21 players would happily have settled for a draw.

Arguably the most brutal innings of all time.

Utterly brutal innings. That didn't look like a typical day 5 wicket though - looked more like a day 3 pitch. Not too take anything away from one of the greatest knocks in history.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Utterly brutal innings. That didn't look like a typical day 5 wicket though - looked more like a day 3 pitch. Not too take anything away from one of the greatest knocks in history.

Then why post it lol

 

[stephen]

Then why post it lol

Just commenting on how good the pitch looked on day 5. The MCG groundsman would be pleased.

Come to think of it, if I had the 80s WIndies coming I'd prepare the flattest of flat decks as well.

 

[Flem274*]

Honestly I think Greenidge is overshadowed by the mixture of not being the star batsman in his team and playing during an era most people in this thread did not see.

A lot of us grew up watching some very successful openers. Even accounting for it being an outlier era of batting, Hayden walking down the pitch and casually smoking opening bowlers back over their heads, Sehwag turning test cricket into T20, Cook turning test cricket into a patience experiment and Graeme Smith just being the epitome of Big Dick Energy really glues itself into memory.

He's also of the same talent level as the above mentioned so longevity does count in this argument.

 

[Bolo.]

Hayden averaged 58 over an 8 year period and did it against some very good attacks. His weaknesses are overstated and his strengths underrated. He'd probably have sustained that peak for longer if given a proper run earlier too.

Barry Richards may have had all the potential but you can't play 4 tests and be considered the best IMO.

Sehwag was good and played some fine knocks but his weaknesses were the same as Hayden's, only worse. And he was less consistent as Hayden - more likely to go huge but less likely to get a hundred.

Smith was gutsy and earned a lot of respect but was a bit below the other two. His home record is not good. He make a good foil to one of the other two.

A case can be made for someone like Greenidge or Slater, given the tougher periods they played in but I genuinely think that Hayden was better than both.

Hmmm, I wonder if there is a reason for this.

Every RSA bat has had a poor home record since 1970, especially openers. Iirc, there has been only one RSA player who has averaged more than 50 at home in more than 1 innings in the last 50 years. Not sure if any opening bat has managed more the 40 at home over a decent number of games, just know Smith did and Kirsten (RSAs second best in decades) didnt.

I know you are AUS blind, but get some perspective. Opening bats from other countries don't have a chance to be HTBs like Hayden or Warner.

This said, I am ok with rating a bunch of ppl ahead of Smith. His away record (the best, but not only judge) is obscene, but he timed his entire (short) career to coincide with featherbeds and crap bowlers away. It wouldn't surprise me if he was doing well away in decades like the 80s or 90s, but it also wouldn't surprise me if he was averaging 10 or 15 less away.

 

[Flem274*]

TIL 117 tests and 12 years, leading his team to their first ever success in Australia and playing England/India every other game is a short career against crap attacks on flat pitches.

 

[CricAddict]

It is between Hayden and Sehwag for me, two brutal openers who can adequately partner Gavaskar. Went with Hayden at the end for a left-right combination.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Much is made about Smith in the 4th innings but in the last 50 years these are the 4th innings averages:

Boycott 61.77!!
Greenidge 54.92!
Gavaskar 52.50
Smith 51.68
Hayden 49.50
Gooch 47.47

Interesting Sehwag (who often went nuts early in tests) 32.17

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Anyway it is one of Richards, Boycott, and Greenidge. Richards was clearly the best of those 3 so it is him (although his test career finished more than 50 years ago).

Smith, Hayden, and Sehwag very good too.

 

[CricAddict]

Opening with Boycott and Gavaskar can put anyone to sleep except for the purists.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Much is made about Smith in the 4th innings but in the last 50 years these are the 4th innings averages:

Boycott 61.77!!
Greenidge 54.92!
Gavaskar 52.50
Smith 51.68
Hayden 49.50
Gooch 47.47

I'm really surprised that all of those are as high as they are

 

[Fuller Pilch]

So am I. I was wondering if I'd entered the statsguru nos wrongly

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Opening with Boycott and Gavaskar can put anyone to sleep except for the purists.

My favourite opener was probably Mark Richardson, so I'd have no problem with Boycott and Gavaskar!

 

[Aritro]

It's worth noting that Greenidge had an 18 year career whereas Sehwag, Hayden and Smith had effective test careers of about 10 years. His average of 45~ over 1974-1991 is still better relative to his era compared to what the three jocks achieved in the 00s but even leaving that aside, having double the longevity of the competition should be given a lot of consideration.

The other side of this is that Greenidge in his 10 year 'prime' between 1976 and 1985 (which is about as long as the careers of the biff 3) had much better numbers than his overall ones. He was one of the 4-5 batsman of the time nudging an average of 50 and considered one of the top batsmen of his era a decade into his career. He was still very useful for his team for several years after that but playing on for 7 more years after his peak as a 40 average opener (which was still high quality for the time) has sorta affected how he is viewed on CW I think.

This is Greenidge compared to other openers from 1976 to 1985 with min 1000 runs:

View attachment 29459

Love it. Always bothered me that his overall numbers didn't quite match his reputation, nor what I've seen in footage of him looking absolutely imperious so this is a really helpful breakdown.