***Official*** 4th Test @ The Oval, London - 2nd-6th September

[Daemon]

I'd go unchanged except Ishant/Shami out for Ashwin

 

[honestbharani]

I would want 3 changes. SKY for Rahane, Ash for Ishant and Lord for Shami.

Think they will do only the Ash one. Lot depends on Jaddu's fitness too.

 

[cnerd123]

but can we all agree Kohli needs to be dropped

 

[Manee]

I would want 3 changes. SKY for Rahane, Ash for Ishant and Lord for Shami.

Think they will do only the Ash one. Lot depends on Jaddu's fitness too.

Lord for Shami is way too risky!

 

[honestbharani]

Lord for Shami is way too risky!

Nah.. Shami can run out of gas easily and become another Ishant this test. I dont expect that change to happen but if it was me, I would do it. I think Lord provides a point of difference to the other bowlers. Shami is not very different in terms of MO from Bumrah or Siraj or even Ishant. Lord being an actual swing bowler can be a difference.

Ideally we should have had Lord in Leeds but what's done is done. Even I wont have dropped Ishant for anyone after Lords.

 

[wpdavid]

Ideally this would be my side too, maybe Mahmood ahead of Wood, with Pope at 5. He averages over a 100 at the Oval, so there's that.

I think Mahmood's been released to make way for Woakes.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I think it's reasonable to say he [Curran] hasn't progressed since his initial impact.

I think he has progressed ...but in his white ball game. The downside (from an England Test pov; I'm sure Curran is delighted) of his breakthrough performances all coming against India is he's been swept into the IPL/T20 circuit early and his game for that format has come on nicely. Sadly his red ball skills have, if anything, declined.

I also think he's a different case from young Broad/Flintoff/Stokes etc. in that they had raw potential with the (red) ball which Curran sadly doesn't possess. Let's be frank, he's short, he bowls slow and with his action he's never going to bowl anything other than skiddy medium-fast pace. If he's going to be a fixture in the Test side he needs to develop his batting enough to bat top 6 and currently it's not there: he can play a nice cameo but he's still yet to hit a FC century. Basically, his batting is good enough to be a bowling allrounder at 8 but his bowling isn't good enough to play there with Woakes/COverton/Robinson all better bowlers who can also hold a bat, plus of course Stokes when he is hopefully available again.

There's still a lot to like about Curran: he's young, talented and has shown a lot of fight. As I think I said elsewhere I'd be trying to give him more responsibility in our white ball sides right now, since that's where his development is naturally headed, but leave him out of the Test squad until he figures out how to play longer innings.

 

[Uppercut]

Curran's batting looks pretty low-ceiling to me too tbh. Very flat footed. There's nothing in his FC record that would suggest otherwise either.

He'd probably need to do a Rohit and overhaul his technique completely to prioritise being the best possible test cricketer. And setting aside my own feelings about test primacy, that wouldn't make a lot of sense for him. He has so much more to offer in the shorter formats.

 

[Flem274*]

im not an expert at all but he's about the same stature and pace as kemar roach, so he should study up on the other medium paced midget who takes 200+ poles @ 27

 

[honestbharani]

The pace is not the issue. The height probably is. When Shami is not at his best, his height works against him too. I am no expert on bowling actions and stuff, but it almost looks like the ball comes at a more comfortable height after pitching for these guys. And when it is not moving, it is easy to get your hands through and hit the ball well. Its what they call the "nice even bounce" I guess, so even at a 135+ kmph pace, it sits up nicely to be hit.

But he has a lot of ability, Sam Curran. The only problem is, just as with Shami, the team seems to have better options which may not have been true even 10-15 years ago. Given the current options available to their respective sides, neither is a certain starter and that is fine, I guess.

 

[Uppercut]

The lack of control is a bigger problem than the lack of pace or height. When he lands it in the right place he consistently causes problems, which you can't really say about a theoretically high-ceiling player like Wood. I know that's largely a function of home conditions, but England play half their games at home so it's kind of important.

You just can't have a medium pacer who repeatedly needs to be taken out of the attack after giving up 0/30 off five. Sure he could become more accurate, but you can say that about anyone.

 

[honestbharani]

The lack of control is a bigger problem than the lack of pace or height.

True but I meant taller guys can still get away with slightly below average balls if they can get the bounce. Its not like the shorter ones can't either but with Shami and Sam especially, the ball just seems to come on nicely and so when they are off their lines and lengths they seem to be easier to put away.

 

[Uppercut]

True but I meant taller guys can still get away with slightly below average balls if they can get the bounce. Its not like the shorter ones can't either but with Shami and Sam especially, the ball just seems to come on nicely and so when they are off their lines and lengths they seem to be easier to put away.

Yeah this is probably true.

But Curran is a left-arm inswing bowler, so bounce is more of a mixed blessing than it is for the likes of Shami. Ryan Sidebottom’s height was sometimes a hindrance because his lbw shouts were always going over the top.

 

[Flem274*]

Man I'm still sad Ryan Sidebottom never got 200 wickets, or knowing England's test spam, 400 wickets.

He was genuinely class and an important bowler on the road from the mid-table to #1.

 

[Teja.]

I’d keep Rahane in unless the team is confident enough to try Shaw here. I don’t see the others in England as better replacements now.

 

[Manee]

Man I'm still sad Ryan Sidebottom never got 200 wickets, or knowing England's test spam, 400 wickets.

He was genuinely class and an important bowler on the road from the mid-table to #1.

Yes - really good bowler. Tall, quick, left-arm, swung it in, didn't bowl loose.

 

[Arachnodouche]

W.r.t. Curran, not sure how a guy in his early twenties, a good athlete from all appearances, and with all the knowhow at the ECB's disposal, still bowls so slow in this era. Maybe they need to take him aside and work on the technical/physical aspects; you'd imagine there's potential being lost somewhere. He'll be handy if he can pump it up to 82-83 mph consistently with that swing. Has no margin for error at present though.

 

[grecian]

I think Mahmood's been released to make way for Woakes.

Yeah, hence ideally, it also has Leach in the side.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah, hence ideally, it also has Leach in the side.

Ah, there you go then. I'm blaming old age for missing that bit.

 

[honestbharani]

Man I'm still sad Ryan Sidebottom never got 200 wickets, or knowing England's test spam, 400 wickets.

He was genuinely class and an important bowler on the road from the mid-table to #1.

I loved how the English posters here used to call him Sidearse... Sophomoric humor, probably but I still laughed everytime.