Final: England v Italy (In London, England)

[Spark]

Yeah he was very underwhelming. Today also really emphasised that England simply don't have a central midfielder who is just good on the ball and can float about and pass it around, and just take control of a match. They've got plenty of defensive, kick it and run, and attacking types, but no passing midfielder who's not a ball winner or basically just an attacker.

Sure they do. He just never got to play in that position.

 

[duffer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414349201014763528

You're my ****ing crack too, Bukayo.

 

[Zinzan]

Italy looked the better side bar the first 10 minutes so deserved the win, but didn't England have more experience to call on in the end than a 19 & 21 year old?

 

[andruid]

My feeling is that after they scored England actually defended well during the rest of the first half. After half time Italy tweaked their approach and England lost the plot.

 

[sledger]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1414349201014763528

You're my ****ing crack too, Bukayo.

Ngl, read this as "****ing my crack"

 

[wpdavid]

I've heard that in England they tend to make technically talented players into attackers at an early age, whereas other countries do the opposite. In Spain they tried to make Iniesta into a DM the whole time he was a teenager.

I think there's something in this. I was chatting the other day about how Modric was English, he's have spent his life playing as a number 10, or maybe even as a wide player. tbh, I thought that Rice and Phillips played reasonably well last night, and they're a million miles from buys like Batty who used to play as our DM, but they're not going to control the game.

 

[sledger]

Should have picked Jack Wilshere imo

 

[wpdavid]

I know everyone now rates Mount very highly but he did very little in this tournament.

He was pretty anonymous last night. Maybe better in a different formation, like when we played against Croatia. But with wingbacks and one less attacking player, Grealish would have offered more operating behind Kane and Sterling.

 

[Uppercut]

The Saka discourse is total bollocks. Older players don’t necessarily deal with pressure better than younger ones, and statistically younger players are more likely to score in shoot outs. He’s not a snowflake, he’s a very good player who’s always comes across as being strong mentally and I’d have backed him to score. Sometimes players miss, it happens. He has a whole career to look forward to.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The Saka discourse is total bollocks. Older players don’t necessarily deal with pressure better than younger ones, and statistically younger players are more likely to score in shoot outs. He’s not a snowflake, he’s a very good player who’s always comes across as being strong mentally and I’d have backed him to score. Sometimes players miss, it happens. He has a whole career to look forward to.

I think its more that the mental toll of potentially missing a decisive penalty for a younger player might be worse though, right? Not necessarily less likely to score, although the fact that he's literally never taken one at that level makes him a bit of a dodgy choice.

 

[sledger]

It was just horrid to watch

 

[Uppercut]

I think its more that the mental toll of potentially missing a decisive penalty for a younger player might be worse though, right? Not necessarily less likely to score, although the fact that he's literally never taken one at that level makes him a bit of a dodgy choice.

In that case you’re kind of using age as a rough proxy for perspective when Southgate knows all these people very well personally.

 

[Uppercut]

Besides, ‘who do I least want to see suffer if we lose’ would be an insane approach to choosing takers for a penalty shoot out.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The penalties are what they are. I’m more disappointed with the nigh on two hours we spent creating nothing and an inability to even keep the ball for a handful of passes and to get out of own half. Seven of this team started against Croatia three years ago and were hailed as Southgate’s brave new world, but the whole thing has gone nowhere. It’s all reverted to type, but a lot of people get excited because the players are younger.

 

[BoyBrumby]

In an intense pressure situation like that I think it really a question of "How big are your balls?/how tight is your aris?".

It's not just a question of technique or one of our least technically gifted players wouldn't have (successfully) taken our second.

Maguire obviously fancied one and others perhaps didn't. No shame in that.

 

[Teja.]

Besides, ‘who do I least want to see suffer if we lose’ would be an insane approach to choosing takers for a penalty shoot out.

Yeah, after a night of consideration, my take is that Rashford/Sancho were obviously fine choices and maybe (and you would hope) Southgate knew more than us about Saka’s abilities at penalties from practice because he hasn’t taken one at senior level competitively ever. Ultimately I don’t have anything against Southgate’s choices though it was brutal to see Saka break down.

That being said, the guys who missed the pens should not be blamed as the primary reason for the loss considering they only got to the stage of playing football blackjack for the trophy due to the extremely poor performance of the match sharp first team who should shoulder a lot more blame for the loss. It sucks that these 3 players will be front and centre of the coverage and public memory of why England lost here.

 

[StephenZA]

I was more interested to see that this was only the 2nd penalty shoot out in the finals of Euro? I expected the number to be higher. Lots of semi and quarter final shootouts.

 

[wpdavid]

I was more interested to see that this was only the 2nd penalty shoot out in the finals of Euro? I expected the number to be higher. Lots of semi and quarter final shootouts.

Maybe lower than expected because they had the 'golden goal' rule in 1996 and 2000. But yeah, I would still have expected more have them, especially with the earliest being as long ago as 1976.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, after a night of consideration, my take is that Rashford/Sancho were obviously fine choices and maybe (and you would hope) Southgate knew more than us about Saka’s abilities at penalties from practice because he hasn’t taken one at senior level competitively ever. Ultimately I don’t have anything against Southgate’s choices though it was brutal to see Saka break down.

That being said, the guys who missed the pens should not be blamed as the primary reason for the loss considering they only got to the stage of playing football blackjack for the trophy due to the extremely poor performance of the match sharp first team who should shoulder a lot more blame for the loss. It sucks that these 3 players will be front and centre of the coverage and public memory of why England lost here.

The primary reason we didn't win the game in normal & ET was Italy played really well and we didn't have an answer for it second half. Sure there are things that could have been done better but against a top-class opponent there is no shame in accepting that you don't always get to control it.

The wing-backs turning into a flat five was a symptom of Italy's foothold far more than any deliberate, proactive mindset from England.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Mount was utter shite. And I guess it feels harsh to say this because of his heroic saves but Pickford's lack of ability to ping a pass meant England's ability to counterattack was seriously limited.