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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
Flem274*
123/5
he's been world class for 18 months to 2 years so yeah ofc. i thought he was near the end at melbourne. quite happy to be completely wrong.
The Hutt Rec
International Vice-Captain
Southee averages 15 in Sri Lanka ...
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Bit longer than that tbh. Averages sub-22 since 2018. Following his career has been quite the roller coaster ride.
Flem274*
123/5
Yeah Southee/Boult announced themselves as a pair against the proper Sri Lanka too, not the 2020 version. Dilshan, Karunaratne, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Samaraweera and Mathews were the top 6 in 2012.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Have no problem putting Southee in the Anderson class of great players if he can keep it up a couple of more years.
TheJediBrah
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*very good
Howsie
International Captain
That’s fine, I just remember you having a dig at me calling him one of the top bowlers a little while ago.
Flem274*
123/5
ok. i don't.
Zinzan
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My thoughts have moved to the T20 world cup...
Team 1, for spin friendly conditions
Allen
Guptill
Munro
Conway +
KW
Phillips 6
Santner 4
Jamieson 2
Ferguson 3
Sodhi 5
Boult 1
This side basically picks our 5 best specialist t20 bowlers & I'm keeping with Conway in case we want a couple of over of spin from Phillips
Team 2... for more pace friendly conditions
Allen
Guptill
Munro
Conway +
KW
Phillips 6
de Grandhomme 5
Santner 4
Jamieson 2
Ferguson 3
Boult 1
Much deeper batting lineup, with Lord Colin, although it does mean sharing the 5th bowler allotment between the 2 Colins and Phillips.
Interested in what people think about my top 6 bats in both teams, since I know some don't like Munro,. but for me it's easy.. these are the top 6 T20 bats we have.
Seifert, Milne & Mitchell make up the squad of 15
The notable omission from recent sides is Neesham who unfortunately for me just cannot be trusted with the white ball. I see he's now being collared in the English domestic T20 comp.
Thoughts?
Team 1, for spin friendly conditions
Allen
Guptill
Munro
Conway +
KW
Phillips 6
Santner 4
Jamieson 2
Ferguson 3
Sodhi 5
Boult 1
This side basically picks our 5 best specialist t20 bowlers & I'm keeping with Conway in case we want a couple of over of spin from Phillips
Team 2... for more pace friendly conditions
Allen
Guptill
Munro
Conway +
KW
Phillips 6
de Grandhomme 5
Santner 4
Jamieson 2
Ferguson 3
Boult 1
Much deeper batting lineup, with Lord Colin, although it does mean sharing the 5th bowler allotment between the 2 Colins and Phillips.
Interested in what people think about my top 6 bats in both teams, since I know some don't like Munro,. but for me it's easy.. these are the top 6 T20 bats we have.
Seifert, Milne & Mitchell make up the squad of 15
The notable omission from recent sides is Neesham who unfortunately for me just cannot be trusted with the white ball. I see he's now being collared in the English domestic T20 comp.
Thoughts?
He'd have to keep going until 2024-25 for me to put him in that category.
Someone said it's been a hell of a ride with Southee, and isn't that the case. I remember watching him carve up in the U19 World Cup, and hearing stories about how he was the next best thing, dominating school cricket in Auckland. I was there in Napier in 08, and you thought Sir Richard must've sewn his wild oats in Whangarei on a trip to play ND 18 years ago. Went to England and dominated with the white ball, and thought gee he's going to be devastating with the white ball too. Then he got a big head, had a shitty attitude, used touring as a skirt-chasing venture and generally **** the bed for a while longer...until he was dropped, Allan Donald turned up and his fortunes rose again. Only to fall again soon after Donald went (from memory?). I remember him bowling in Dunedin in 2012, and honestly it was painful. He didn't even look FC standard. Then we get another lull, a brief bounce back in the 2015 WC, another lull, then this golden period in Tests from 2018 at a time when in ODIs he's looked pedestrian as hell. Massive underperformer with the bat, yet is in the conversation as one of the most prolific six-hitters in Test cricket. And is an incredibly good fielder.
But he's rewritten his career summary in the last 2-3 years and without him, we don't win the Test championship. I'm pretty stoked with that.
Moss
International Captain
No arguments with the top 6 though I don't see them going back to Munro. Chapman should probably be in the mix, he and Phillips could help make up the 5th bowler overs as well. No issues with Neesham batting in the top 6 if he has a decent run with the bat in England and isn't required to bowl too much.
As regards the bowling, not sure I want to see Jameison playing too much T20 cricket at this stage (leaving aside his IPL gig), though I don't have an automatic replacement in mind - let's say Milne, Kuggeleijn, Southee and Bennett in order of preference. I'd like to see Astle in the squad too, extra spin options are always useful and Sodhi quite frankly was bowling trash during the home series.
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
In India, his 7-63 could gave been at 8/52 (from memory), 2nd best figures in history by a NZer. The number 11 was dropped (a sitter) at first slip when his figures were 7/52, dropped by Rosco I think. Was that Nagpur 2012?
But yeah. Bit of an enigma of a career. Times when hes been dropped, other times when I've wanted him dropped.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I don't think playing Allen is important enough to make Conway keep. Maybe he can just keep mid-innings when Phillips is (potentially) bowling, otherwise I'd play Seifert for Allen.
Otherwise more or less agree.
M0rphin3
International Debutant
Why tho? He's been in great form in UAE PSL, surely it'd be good to have him in the mix at least? If anything I'm really unsure and worried about Guppy, has he turned up anytime recently?
Zinzan
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Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
not quite how I remember it. Donald didn’t really have long enough to have much of an influence, he left after 6 months afterall, and the results during that period were pretty up and down.
The period when he was dropped after that Dunedin test was genuinely transformative though. He came back into the team midway through 2012 bowling imo the best Southee’s ever bowled. Looked awesome on difficult surfaces in the subcontinent, took a 10fer at Lords in 2013, lead the bowlers to a series win v India (their first series win against a major side since India in 2003) and then a first series win outside NZ since 2002 v WI. Rounded it off with that spell v England at the 2015 WC. I honestly thought at that point that he might be a sub-25 average career bowler. And then of course his bowling dropped off a cliff and wouldn’t recover for nearly 3 years. Not sure what happened, would be interesting to get the views of Trent or Kane about what was going on at the time. Finally we came full circle when he got dropped for the first test v SA in 2017 - that reportedly really shook him up, he was apparently on the verge of tears on the morning of the game. And then when he came back the following season he was bowling well again - he’d admittedly lost a yard of pace which was the first thing we all latched on to given that we’d all had our Southee voodoo dolls out for a while by that point, but he was actually hitting good areas and building pressure again. He’s even bowling well in limited overs now, which he hasn’t since probably 2015. Hope it continues on for a few more years and that he doesn’t get too comfortable now that they’ve finally got some silverware in the cabinet.
Moss
International Captain
I'm still processing the WTC victory TBH. Was on edge throughout that final day, culmination of not just a very intense test match but 29 years of following the team and experiencing a number of near-misses. The missus commented she'd never seen me like that before.
The win came at just the right time too with some changes imminent. Watling leaving, Ross CdG and Wagner not far away, and a couple of squad members and rookies knocking on the door. Been a terrific run. Don't think anyone has come up with ratings yet, so here's a quick report card of the squad through the last 3 tests.
Latham - 6.5/10 - Meme efforts with bat but good foil for Conway, captaincy and slip catching chops a real asset
Conway - 9.5/10 - More challenges await as opposition intel grows, but so far has been the real deal
Kane - 8.5/10 - Terrible form to begin with but responded like a true great when it came to the clutch in the final, real calmness under pressure
Taylor - 8/10 - Utilized every ounce of experience at crucial moments, no one deserved a feel-good story more (hope he can make it to the 2023 WC)
Nicholls - 5/10 - Tapered off with the bat and didn't build on the successful home season, but that catch off Pant was simply iconic
Watling - 6/10 - Comfortably out-kept both Bracey and Pant in tough conditions, batting output suggests its the right time to go
CdG - 3/10 - Good for the odd tight spell but little else in his sort of conditions, might be facing an uncertain test future
Jameison - 10/10 - "But but how will he go in Asia?"
Southee - 9.5/10 - Constant threat and great to see him working batsmen out, even played a responsible and vital knock in the final
Wagner - 9/10 - Champion - as usual, took wickets when the team most needed it whether by pitching it up or employing Wagnerball
Boult - 4/10 - Possibly the one worry as his figures were mainly down to cheap wickets, but did contribute in the end (EDIT: raising to 5.5 rating, 4 is probably harsh for 11 wickets in 2 tests)
Ajaz - 3/5 - Extremely likeable squad member who did his job at Edgbaston, but right decision on leaving him out for the final
Young - 4/5 - Impressive if not chanceless 82 in the 2nd test, important phase in his career as the side will see some churn
Mitchell - 2/5 - Squandered opportunity with the bat, good guy to have in the squad but best bet is to make it as a specialist batsman IMO
Blundell - 3/5 - Very different player from Watling and will have to deal with comparisons, but seems to be at home in the test arena
Henry - 4/5 - Finally a test performance to be proud of, should get a few more opportunities at home
Santner - 0/5 - Still only 29 and always in consideration when picking test sides - the management need to work with him to see how he can raise his game
The win came at just the right time too with some changes imminent. Watling leaving, Ross CdG and Wagner not far away, and a couple of squad members and rookies knocking on the door. Been a terrific run. Don't think anyone has come up with ratings yet, so here's a quick report card of the squad through the last 3 tests.
Latham - 6.5/10 - Meme efforts with bat but good foil for Conway, captaincy and slip catching chops a real asset
Conway - 9.5/10 - More challenges await as opposition intel grows, but so far has been the real deal
Kane - 8.5/10 - Terrible form to begin with but responded like a true great when it came to the clutch in the final, real calmness under pressure
Taylor - 8/10 - Utilized every ounce of experience at crucial moments, no one deserved a feel-good story more (hope he can make it to the 2023 WC)
Nicholls - 5/10 - Tapered off with the bat and didn't build on the successful home season, but that catch off Pant was simply iconic
Watling - 6/10 - Comfortably out-kept both Bracey and Pant in tough conditions, batting output suggests its the right time to go
CdG - 3/10 - Good for the odd tight spell but little else in his sort of conditions, might be facing an uncertain test future
Jameison - 10/10 - "But but how will he go in Asia?"
Southee - 9.5/10 - Constant threat and great to see him working batsmen out, even played a responsible and vital knock in the final
Wagner - 9/10 - Champion - as usual, took wickets when the team most needed it whether by pitching it up or employing Wagnerball
Boult - 4/10 - Possibly the one worry as his figures were mainly down to cheap wickets, but did contribute in the end (EDIT: raising to 5.5 rating, 4 is probably harsh for 11 wickets in 2 tests)
Ajaz - 3/5 - Extremely likeable squad member who did his job at Edgbaston, but right decision on leaving him out for the final
Young - 4/5 - Impressive if not chanceless 82 in the 2nd test, important phase in his career as the side will see some churn
Mitchell - 2/5 - Squandered opportunity with the bat, good guy to have in the squad but best bet is to make it as a specialist batsman IMO
Blundell - 3/5 - Very different player from Watling and will have to deal with comparisons, but seems to be at home in the test arena
Henry - 4/5 - Finally a test performance to be proud of, should get a few more opportunities at home
Santner - 0/5 - Still only 29 and always in consideration when picking test sides - the management need to work with him to see how he can raise his game
Last edited:
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Santner should be done. If Nz want to look at a batsman who can get through some overs they’ve got Rachin and Rippon to experiment with.
Re that series what would your first choice side be?
My XI
Latham, Conway, KW, Conway, Nicholls, Rachin, Blundell, Jamieson, Southee, Sommerville/Boult, Ajaz
I suspect CdG will get more opportunities though.
Re that series what would your first choice side be?
My XI
Latham, Conway, KW, Conway, Nicholls, Rachin, Blundell, Jamieson, Southee, Sommerville/Boult, Ajaz
I suspect CdG will get more opportunities though.