2011 England or 2021 NZ?

[Spark]

Maybe but...

He appeared very much finished in that Ashes series. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but, and I've no memory to verify or contradict, I bet you and I, and others, probably found ourselves glad of Morgan coming in at that point.

Shame it wasn't to be. Agree Colly makes the line up look stronger but it's not really England 2011 with him in.


Another timing one I guess. Spring 2011 versus now sure. At the end of the India series? Not a chance

IIRC most English fans here were pretty positive about Morgan coming into that India series. Was only after he didn't really do a lot (in a series where everyone else made truckloads) that people began to agree that Test cricket wasn't his gig. Then, of course, that hideous UAE series where people really thought he would do well.

 

[Bahnz]

England, stronger batting depth and greater variety in bowling would see them home. Would be a hard fought series though.


Strauss = Latham
Cook > Conway
Trott < KW
Pietersen > Boss
Bell > Nips
Prior > BJ
Morgan < CdG
Swann > Wagner
Tremlett < KJ
Broad < Southee
Anderson > Boult

Watling the better keeper but Prior was a run scoring machine at the time, so he shades it. Swann a better bat than Wags and able to exploit conditions that he can’t. Cook was in just insane touch in the 2-3 years surrounding this period, so narrowly grabs the win from Conway.

 

[Adders]

Don't normally go for these threads but this is an interesting one and it's very close IMO.

I feel that at this stage Eng just shade it, but that side peaked and then crashed rather quickly. At the peak they had some incredible results that NZ have yet to achieve. But NZ have only just reached the summit and there's no reason to think they can't go on to achieve similar or better.

No idea what NZ's test schedule looks like for the next 12-18 months but they have a team with depth to really push on from here and not fall off a cliff like we did.

 

[Zinzan]

England, stronger batting depth and greater variety in bowling would see them home. Would be a hard fought series though.


Strauss = Latham
Cook > Conway
Trott < KW
Pietersen > Boss
Bell > Nips
Prior > BJ
Morgan < CdG
Swann > Wagner
Tremlett < KJ
Broad < Southee
Anderson > Boult

Watling the better keeper but Prior was a run scoring machine at the time, so he shades it. Swann a better bat than Wags and able to exploit conditions that he can’t. Cook was in just insane touch in the 2-3 years surrounding this period, so narrowly grabs the win from Conway.

Think you're being overly tough on your own team here overall, with the exception of Southee who I'd have the same as Broad. Margins between Taylor vs KP, BJ vs Prior, Swann vs Wagner aren't enough to go either way.

Even sides for me.

Strauss = Latham
Cook = Conway
Trott < KW
Pietersen = Boss
Bell > Nips
Prior = BJ
Morgan < CdG
Swann = Wagner
Tremlett <KJ
Broad = Southee
Anderson > Boult

 

[Bahnz]

2011 KP was clearly a much better player than present day Taylor. He played some of the greatest ever innings by an England player in Aus and India during that period. By comparison, Taylor’s ceiling has looked to be chancey 80’s. Ditto for Prior and Watling. if you’re talking 2014-19 Watling, then it becomes a much closer race, likewise 2013 Prior. But as it is I think Prior wins comfortably. Both of the NZ guys are pretty transparently past their best, while their English counterparts were in their prime (even if it wasn’t to last too long).

The only one I think is debatable is Swann v Wagner, who are hard to compare for obvious reasons.

 

[Athlai]

No clue why you are doing a player to player measurement there. Our middle order is better than theres, our pace attack is better. You'd lean to them for openers purely because Conway is so early in his Test career and they're about a million miles ahead in terms of spinners.

 

[Bahnz]

No clue why you are doing a player to player measurement there. Our middle order is better than theres, our pace attack is better. You'd lean to them for openers purely because Conway is so early in his Test career and they're about a million miles ahead in terms of spinners.

Nah.

 

[Athlai]

Kane >> KP

 

[SteveNZ]

Not sure I can agree with all of this, although it is nice to see NZ posters genuinely ****-a-hoop about the quality of our players.

I'd give the edge to England, because they're a slightly more rounded, more experienced group. They have a world class spinner, two world class openers (we have 1 if you count Conway, but that's early), and their only real weak link is Morgan at 7 - and his average isn't that dissimilar to Cdg. Strauss over Latham all day long. KP a better player than 2021 Ross Taylor, and probably overall too.

However, given the ticker of our side, we might well have gone toe to toe and come away with a result against that 2011 outfit. Given, you know, they aren't Australia.

 

[Flem274*]

Are we comparing careers or form here?

England in 2011 were red hot. Everyone was ****in on. NZ 2021 have a couple of near passengers.

 

[Gob]

Hey Strauss > Latham comfortably

Lathem is pretty good against spin though

Also Broad over Southee especially if we are comparing 2011 vs India Broad. **** was bowling as if he was on steroids

 

[morgieb]

Are we comparing careers or form here?

England in 2011 were red hot. Everyone was ****in on. NZ 2021 have a couple of near passengers.

Who'd you say is a passenger in the current side? Closest I think is CDG and he adds far more than Morgan ever did.

 

[Jezroy]

No idea what NZ's test schedule looks like for the next 12-18 months but they have a team with depth to really push on from here and not fall off a cliff like we did.

2 tests vs India away
2 tests vs Bangladesh home
2 tests vs SA home
3 tests vs England away
1 test vs Ireland away
2 tests vs Pakistan away
2 tests vs Sri Lanka home

Sadly ATM just 4 tests for our next home summer (2 of which are against Bangladesh AGAIN - would rather play them in Bangladesh).

Then the 2022-23 season we have TWO tests against Sri Lanka? Jesus. We should do well in most of those test. Toughest ones look to be India (by far) and Pakistan away.

That takes us right up to the next ODI World Cup.

 

[Flem274*]

Who'd you say is a passenger in the current side? Closest I think is CDG and he adds far more than Morgan ever did.

Taylor and Watling were/are in dubious nick with the bat and Boult is in a moderate dip with the ball

 

[Bahnz]

Then the 2022-23 season we have TWO tests against Sri Lanka? Jesus. We should do well in most of those test. Toughest ones look to be India (by far) and Pakistan away.

That takes us right up to the next ODI World Cup.

Yeah, they usually only play 2 tests in a WC year unless its being held in England. The major bummer has been zero home tests v Australia over the entire 4 year cycle. Would also like to have seen NZ play in WI. Even with WI being a weak side, it’s always interesting cricket to watch in the Caribbean. We’ve only had 2 tours ther in the last 19 years.

 

[Adders]

I'm so out of touch with cricket administration these days. Are all these series locked in as of now? Surely as current WTC champs and the No1 test side in the world, NZ is going to have a lot more pull with longer/more marque series than they've had in the past?

I'm sure too that the NZ masses will be more tuned into to test cricket now than ever before.

Who wouldn't want to see a 3 or even 4 test series at home with Aus right now?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

I'm so out of touch with cricket administration these days. Are all these series locked in as of now? Surely as current WTC champs and the No1 test side in the world, NZ is going to have a lot more pull with longer/more marque series than they've had in the past?

I'm sure too that the NZ masses will be more tuned into to test cricket now than ever before.

I actually suspect these series will be rearranged at extremely short notice (except the winter's Ashes and the Twenty20 World Cup in October, these are locked in). There's still no official news on the new cycle of Test Championship, and the qualifying for the 50-over World Cup is also definitely out of whack with the official planning. It is to be hoped that NZC are able to capitalize on their status as World Test champions and organize some longer series

 

[Bahnz]

Hmmm, not sure. There’ll be a test of that theory this year. Makes no sense for a series between the WTC finalists and top 2 ranked teams in the world to be only 2 matches. If NZ does have some extra cache you’d expect the BCCI to schedule a 3rd test.