*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Nintendo]

If we pick guys who are dominating domestic cricket we will have a plethora of 125 k bowlers who look like Anderson on our tailor made pitches at home. With the bat we will have all hackers picked. NZ domestic scene is different from Aussie. Australia has true pitches where good batsmen, bowlers and spinners can thrive. Easy to sort out gold from dust but not so clear here. We bank on ability rather than runs or wickets. Jamieson was not unbelievable. In fact he barely picked a wicket in UAE playing for NZ A but we know he had to be picked. Henry Nicholls averaged like 32 batting in the middle order for Canterbury when he got the gig to play for NZ A and rest is history. Our set up is very different from Aussie or any other country in fact. Early recognition of talent and nurturing them through our winter training, NZ A programme and to having them in the squad is the way to go. That's what we've been doing of late.

If you spot guys with talent who don't have world beating numbers (Jamieson, or marnus in australia's case) who you think has talent, the best way to nurture them is to give them A game experience first and maybe prop them into a squad, no? My comments about the nz domestic scene where obviously ignorant though, posts above made it seem like it was a similiar problem/debate to our system with Chappell. My bad.

 

[nzfan]

If you spot guys with talent who don't have world beating numbers (Jamieson, or marnus in australia's case) who you think has talent, the best way to nurture them is to give them A game experience first and maybe prop them into a squad, no? My comments about the nz domestic scene where obviously ignorant though, posts above made it seem like it was a similiar problem/debate to our system with Chappell. My bad.

No such problem in NZ. Most of the players we have debuted recently were over 28 years old. It's not the age but it's the after effect of choosing older players. They will all retire at the same time and leave a massive gap.

It's been a bit better of late, we have Jamieson who's 26, Duffy another 26 year old, Finn Allen a t20 superstar aged 22, Rachin Ravindra in the squad but not got a game yet who's 21. Tom Latham was the last we debuted probably when he was 20 or 21.

We don't have a lot of young players capable of performing at the next level in my opinion. There's about 2 or 3 max at the moment. Good time to get them in the team and develop them. A programme has been really good over the last couple of years or three courtesy India, Pakistan and Covid.

 

[nzfan]

No you're stuck in the 90s.

Last season our pitches were dog****, but prior to that the cream rose to the top since 2011 or so. Colin Munro was the only biffer who succeeded, based on a strong Auckland record and an incredible eye.

Early recognition of talent has a place but ultimately constricts your player pool and throws in young talent before they are ready, as we have repeatedly discovered until 2015 or so. The men who have risen to the top under this regime have been 25+ domestic pros and great NZ A players. CDG, Daryl Mitchell, Will Young, Devon Conway, Ajaz Patel, Tom Blundell, Will Somerville....Kyle Jamieson became a new bowler after being with the squad, seeing where he needed to improve and returning to Auckland to dominate. He was good in the Shield prior though, at about the Duffy/Bracewell/Kuggeleijn level.

If you look at the best bowlers in the Plunket Shield of the regulars, Kyle Jamieson, Lockie Ferguson, Hamish Bennett, Matt Henry, Will Williams and Fraser Sheat dominate with Devon Conway, Will Young and recently Mark Chapman being the premier batsmen. Most classic NZ corridor medium pacers like Doug Bracewell have slipped into the second tier. Jacob Duffy has late arrived to the party and good on him.

I'm concerned the "dukeaburra" will combine with green early season pitches to turn us into the mess that is county cricket but if we get rid of it and Williams/Sheat are still terrifying then fair game to them. That's actually my only concern with domestic cricket atm barring game time - we really don't need the stupid duke ball influence making Colin de Grandhomme more valuable than Lockie Ferguson.

Henry Nicholls and Kyle Jamieson were the only talent spots we've had recently barring the obvious Ravindra, and apprenticeships with the larger touring squad and NZ A are by no means a bad thing.

We don't need to throw players at the dart board anymore. The Plunket Shield is good enough with pitches and the ball resembling NZ test conditions to show who can play well in home tests, with a bit of early season spice and late season meme spin.

Apart from the Cantabrians and McEwan I can't think of too many trundlers who are actually good anymore at domestic level. Even the new ball bully Seth Rance bowls at 135kph and swings it both ways, which makes him pretty good anywhere in the world for FC.

I think a bit of youth is not an issue. In fact it's underway with Duffy, Ravindra, Allen recently picked in the squad. We will see 1 or 2 more inducted shortly I have no doubt. That is the way to go. Bias aside, Ben Sears is the next off the block. He will get in the squad this year if he's fit there's no doubt. Invariably couple of guys or three will drop off from the side in the next 2-3 years. Don't want to say their names but you'll see.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

tbf, if we took the England rotational approach, we'd probably have debuted Sears now, maybe Jayden Lennox and pfft I dunno Brad Schmulian.

 

[Bahnz]

Southee strikes me as someone who will want to do the Anderson/McGrath thing and will probably retire when he's 39. If he's still good enough then, mind you.

Really? Southee’s always struck me as a bit of a fun loving, easy going kinda guy who’ll chuck it in the second he’s not having fun anymore. Definitely the sort of bloke who needs a kick up the pants every now and then to get the best out of him. It’s part of why I love having Jamieson in the mix: Southee knows that if he starts bowling like a drain as he did in 2015-2017 he’ll end up out on his arse.

 

[Flem274*]

Really? Southee’s always struck me as a bit of a fun loving, easy going kinda guy who’ll chuck it in the second he’s not having fun anymore. Definitely the sort of bloke who needs a kick up the pants every now and then to get the best out of him. It’s part of why I love having Jamieson in the mix: Southee knows that if he starts bowling like a drain as he did in 2015-2017 he’ll end up out on his arse.

Yeah this. Southee is definitely the alpha male of the quartet and he brings a lot of great qualities to the side beyond his bowling (he's always the first to come over and put his arm around a struggling bowler, always contributes to the bowling plans, does a lot of the talking in the huddle etc), but he's always been at his best with something to prove imo.

Since Jamieson emerged he's bowling 10kph faster on average and it shows in the carry to Watling. I never thought he'd hit 135kph again after Melbourne where CDG was getting more carry through to the keeper.

 

[Flem274*]

I think a bit of youth is not an issue. In fact it's underway with Duffy, Ravindra, Allen recently picked in the squad. We will see 1 or 2 more inducted shortly I have no doubt. That is the way to go. Bias aside, Ben Sears is the next off the block. He will get in the squad this year if he's fit there's no doubt. Invariably couple of guys or three will drop off from the side in the next 2-3 years. Don't want to say their names but you'll see.

Well yeah Wagner, CDG and Taylor can't go forever, especially Taylor in the test arena. I'm curious to see how long Wagner wants to keep charging in for though. I think he could push Chris Martin for longevity.

 

[morgieb]

Well yeah Wagner, CDG and Taylor can't go forever, especially Taylor in the test arena. I'm curious to see how long Wagner wants to keep charging in for though. I think he could push Chris Martin for longevity.

I feel like Taylor should probably retire with Watling. Has looked pretty patchy for the last few years with the odd great innings to show he's not a complete write-off and New Zealand's batting depth is good.

I do think Wagner can go on for a while though, yeah. He's never been quick and endurance isn't something that declines as quickly as pace.

CDG is interesting, his bowling is something that should have decent longevity but his batting probably less so. Think he hurts New Zealand's balanc too, at least outside of seaming conditions.

 

[Chewie]

No such problem in NZ. Most of the players we have debuted recently were over 28 years old. It's not the age but it's the after effect of choosing older players. They will all retire at the same time and leave a massive gap.

Only if you pick them at the same time at the same age... same thing can happen if you pick younger players

 

[NZTailender]

Really? Southee’s always struck me as a bit of a fun loving, easy going kinda guy who’ll chuck it in the second he’s not having fun anymore. Definitely the sort of bloke who needs a kick up the pants every now and then to get the best out of him. It’s part of why I love having Jamieson in the mix: Southee knows that if he starts bowling like a drain as he did in 2015-2017 he’ll end up out on his arse.

Nah I reckon he has a bit of an ego that will want him to become NZs highest wicket taker and really leave his legacy on the game. He seems to have matured somewhat in the last 18 months. 2-3 years ago I would've said he would chuck it in around now and just go IPL hunting.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah I've tasted it hard wrt Southee. He's finally matured into the Hadlee-esque metronome we hoped for. Still needs to give up white ball tho.

 

[Bahnz]

Nah I reckon he has a bit of an ego that will want him to become NZs highest wicket taker and really leave his legacy on the game. He seems to have matured somewhat in the last 18 months. 2-3 years ago I would've said he would chuck it in around now and just go IPL hunting.

I agree that he'll go after Hadlee's aggregate - I saw something in an interview with him from a few weeks ago that indicated it's on his mind. But I doubt he'll keep playing till he's 39. I think he'll be looking to the home summer after the 2023 World Cup to be his swan song.

 

[Athlai]

He won't need to play till hes 39 to beat Hadlee. Assuming he doesn't miss a huge amount of Tests, I could see him getting the 30 odd required matches by the time hes 36ish.

 

[honestbharani]

Southee may well get an IPL deal anyways if England players dont turn up for the rescheduled one.

 

[NZTailender]

I agree that he'll go after Hadlee's aggregate - I saw something in an interview with him from a few weeks ago that indicated it's on his mind. But I doubt he'll keep playing till he's 39. I think he'll be looking to the home summer after the 2023 World Cup to be his swan song.

Maybe 39 is a bit much, but could see him hanging up his boots age 37ish

 

[Bahnz]

So what next for NZ? Will be interesting to watch and see if Taylor makes any announcements in the coming days. I'm sure the temptation will be strong for him to turn up for a victory lap next summer, but he'll never find a better time to call it quits. If Taylor does stay, should he be in the starting XI for the tour of India?

If he goes, who replaces him? Do they shuffle Conway down the order to #4? Does Young take the place? And what about Rachin?

 

[Athlai]

Rachin debuting this summer is a must I think. Whether thats opening or at 7 I'm not too fussed really.

Latham
Rachin/Conway
Big Daddy
Boss/Nicholls/Conway
Nicholls/Conway/Young
Blundell (+)
Rachin/CDG
Wolfcastle
Southee
Wags
Boult/Duffy/Ferguson

Maybe a bit of rotation in the squad with 1 noob coming in the batting and 1 in the bowling per match.

Then blokes like Neesham/Mitchell/Ajaz/Santa sniffing around the edges for injury cover or if we tour somewhere with spin.

 

[Days of Grace]

How about not picking Taylor for the Indian tour and even giving him a farewell test at the basin? It would never happen, though. Too Sri-Lanka-esque.

 

[nzfan]

The next cricket we will play is not too far away. It's the subcontinent white ball tours in September. I have absolutely no doubt we will be missing players. I think the IPL is scheduled more or less at the same time too so we will have to release some of the players and the next bunch will get a go. I think the future planning is already under way.

Would have been the best way for Taylor to go out but none can tell him when to stop. It's his choice. It was his choice to start and his choice to retire when he wants. His stocks would have gone up in the t20 world after this knock I'd think.

 

[M0rphin3]

When's the India tour?