*Official* South Africa in West Indies 2021

[honestbharani]

MAHARAJ indeed!!!

 

[GotSpin]

Biggest frustration of mine is that when we had Gayle, Sarwan, Shiv and Lara, a world class batting lineup by any yardstick, we had no bowlers at all.

Then now we have a production line of excellent pacers, we have no batsmen at all. It's very disheartening.

I think Gabriel should be ushered towards the door slowly. He's never fit enough

 

[Flem274*]

well done SA. geez they're putting together a world class attack. Rabada and Maharaj were already proven, but Ngidi and Nortje are established starters now too. I definitely expect them to shred us at least once next summer bowling like this.

 

[honestbharani]

I hope the two new batters Peterson and Verreynne go well. And Mulder.

 

[Starfighter]

So WI did fold like a deck of cards.

 

[StephenZA]

Big improvements from SA. Best bowling we've seen in awhile from SA. The consistency and intensity from all. Rabada started showing his true star power again. Secondly the catching and fielding, was great across the board. Think Mulder is making a big difference to the slip cordon. Petersen also showed some good hands.

The batting is still an issue for SA. It was nice seeing the more 'senior' players in Markram, Elgar and van der Dussen score runs at important stages. QDK was the big difference and just showed his class. In the end at Test level you need batsmen that can score you hundreds and I just don't see enough of them at this stage in the line up. We are gonna continue to struggle to consistently get past 300 runs an innings until this happens.

Markram concerns me, because with his hard hands and pushing at the ball I am not sure that he is a good international opening bat. I would love to see him shifted down to 4 for SA but then we have the concern regards the slow bowlers. So much talent and he has scored some good hundreds, but I just don't have the confidence I would like to have in him. Petersen is also pushing at the ball a bit in this series. Could be nerves, could be technique thing. He has the talent but I`m unsure of the temperament. Needs to be given opportunity until we can sort out for sure. Must not be treated the way Hamza was treated. Verreynne deserves every opportunity with what he has done domestically, but I'm not confident his technique is going to stand up to scrutiny at international level. I also did not like the way he was advised (told) to rein it in. I am a believer in playing your natural game that got you selected, and rather working on technical issues as you progress and grow. If he is good enough he will find a way. Mulder needs to be careful and start scoring some proper runs. He is fantastically talented, but SA do not need a medium pacer that scores pretty 20's we need a player that will contribute with the bat significantly. I don't want to be having the same concerns I have with Markram.

Elgar and van der Dussen are doing the ugly hard grafts which I like, but I am concerned about keeping out younger better quality players long run. For now, I would not change the batting line-up for a couple of series, until we see were everybody is. van Tonder should be the next man into the SA line up.

 

[Dendarii]

The batting is still an issue for SA. It was nice seeing the more 'senior' players in Markram, Elgar and van der Dussen score runs at important stages.

The concern I have is that while these guys are scoring runs they're not doing it consistently. One innings it will be one guy making the runs while the others are out for not much and the next it'll be a different combination of who has the high and low scores. The batting line-up might not be of the same calibre as some of those we've had in the past, but on paper it's still a decent-looking line-up, so what we need to do is get the batting firing consistently.

 

[Bahseph]

It is good go see SA winning again,especially after the dark few years we have been through. The bowling was superb as stated above by StephenZA. I always thought that it would be a toss up between Ngidi and Nortje but now I've come to appreciate their different roles. Mulder definitely adds to the attack because even though he lacks in pace,he has good skill. Rabada was amazing.

The batting was patchy. I'm not convinced about Petersen at 3. He looks more like a 5 to me because he is always after the drive. Verreynne needs to tighten up but he might also be best suited to the lower middle order. I'm just happier to see either of them in over Bavuma. Only because we don't know what they are capable of yet, whereas I doubt Temba is going to start averaging 50 for the rest of his career.

Once again I will apologize for ever criticizing Rassie. What he lacks in aesthetics he makes up for with some real grit. Hope he gives us a few good years!

 

[honestbharani]

It is good go see SA winning again,especially after the dark few years we have been through. The bowling was superb as stated above by StephenZA. I always thought that it would be a toss up between Ngidi and Nortje but now I've come to appreciate their different roles. Mulder definitely adds to the attack because even though he lacks in pace,he has good skill. Rabada was amazing.

The batting was patchy. I'm not convinced about Petersen at 3. He looks more like a 5 to me because he is always after the drive. Verreynne needs to tighten up but he might also be best suited to the lower middle order. I'm just happier to see either of them in over Bavuma. Only because we don't know what they are capable of yet, whereas I doubt Temba is going to start averaging 50 for the rest of his career.

Once again I will apologize for ever criticizing Rassie. What he lacks in aesthetics he makes up for with some real grit. Hope he gives us a few good years!

If you find a good second spinner, your attack will be pretty well rounded for all conditions. Then, its just a case of the batsmen improving or achieving their potential, whichever is better for you.

 

[Beamer]

I know we got bundled out 4 times but I still enjoyed the series. I thought there was phenomenal bowling on display from both sides and 3 superb knocks (2 from De Kock, one from Elgar) on challenging pitches that seamed and bounced. The Dukes ball also swung all day no matter how old the ball was.

Ultimately we just couldn't put up any runs at all and SA managed to battle to get enough runs on the board to win comfortably. I'd say this is 60% down to superb bowling from SA and 40% down to poor technique and shot selection from West Indian batsman.

For SA, they clearly have the bowling to beat anyone. It will be interesting to see how they do when they come up against a team that has quality batting to put some scores on the board as the batting lineup is still sub par IMHO. But they appear to be headed in the right direction.

For Windies it was a reality check after some recent signs of progress against lesser attacks in friendlier conditions. The last two times we have come up against attacks of the highest quality using the Caribbean version of the Dukes ball (India and SA) we have been bundled out every innings. It is probably the most challenging conditions to bat in you could imagine. We may have the bowling to take advantage of it but as India and SA showed, that doesn't matter if you can barely muster over 100 runs per innings.

It's hard to see what we can do about it given there is no 4 day cricket due to COVID. Just a tweak here and a tweak there and hope the likes of Mayers and Da Silva improve over time.

 

[Beamer]

I think Gabriel should be ushered towards the door slowly. He's never fit enough

Yep I feel the last test really showed that. We basically played with 10 men .

 

[Beamer]

So I guess it is on to the T20's, which matter more than usual given the prep for the World cup. Looking at the two squads, we should be winning pretty comfortably, but you never know!

Likely Windies XI:

Lewis
Simmons
Gayle
Hetmeyer
Pooran (wk)
Pollard (c)
Russell
Allen
Holder
Walsh Jr/Hossein/Sinclair
Mcoy/Thomas/Edwards

That is an outrageously strong batting lineup.

 

[artvandalay]

Biggest frustration of mine is that when we had Gayle, Sarwan, Shiv and Lara, a world class batting lineup by any yardstick, we had no bowlers at all.

Then now we have a production line of excellent pacers, we have no batsmen at all. It's very disheartening.

i read this and remembered the 2002 tour of WI. We somehow still lost a long series after a good start against an attack with Dillon on his last legs, Sanford, Cuffy, Nagamootoo and a part time Hooper.

 

[honestbharani]

i read this and remembered the 2002 tour of WI. We somehow still lost a long series after a good start against an attack with Dillon on his last legs, Sanford, Cuffy, Nagamootoo and a part time Hooper.

And a 30% effective Lara with that chipped bone in his wrists.

 

[StephenZA]

If you find a good second spinner, your attack will be pretty well rounded for all conditions. Then, its just a case of the batsmen improving or achieving their potential, whichever is better for you.

We have a good 2nd spinner in Linde who can bat a bit as well. Problem is he is also left arm finger spin and also with Mulder in the team, no space unless conditions demand it.

 

[honestbharani]

We have a good 2nd spinner in Linde who can bat a bit as well. Problem is he is also left arm finger spin and also with Mulder in the team, no space unless conditions demand it.

Yeah you need someone of a different variety. Otherwise batsmen can line up to spin easily even in spin friendly conditions no matter how different their actual bowling styles may be.

 

[_00_deathscar]

We are gonna continue to struggle to consistently get past 300 runs an innings until this happens.

Just follow the India post 2019 model. Bowl your opposition out for even less.

 

[Beamer]

i read this and remembered the 2002 tour of WI. We somehow still lost a long series after a good start against an attack with Dillon on his last legs, Sanford, Cuffy, Nagamootoo and a part time Hooper.

That is a prime example! I look at what we have now compared to the days when Dillon and Cuffy led the attack and we have come an awful long way.

Alas the batting has gone in the opposite direction and I don;t exactly see any hope on the horizon.

 

[Beamer]

Windies have cut the T20 squad down to 13 for the first 2 matches. Big news is no Hetmeyer! They really are punishing him, I wonder if he turned up unfit again? Final 13 is:

Kieron Pollard (c), Nicholas Pooran (vc), Evin Lewis, Lendl Simmons, Chris Gayle, Andre Fletcher, Andre Russell, Jason Holder, Fabian Allen, Dwayne Bravo, Kevin Sinclair, Fidel Edwards, Obed McCoy

So my XI would be:

Evin Lewis
Lendl Simmons
Chris Gayle
Nicholas Pooran
Kieron Pollard
Andre Russell
Fabian Allen
Jason Holder
Dwayne Bravo
Kevin Sinclair
Fidel Edwards

Ridiculous hitting power.

 

[Jack1]

Windies have cut the T20 squad down to 13 for the first 2 matches. Big news is no Hetmeyer! They really are punishing him, I wonder if he turned up unfit again? Final 13 is:

Kieron Pollard (c), Nicholas Pooran (vc), Evin Lewis, Lendl Simmons, Chris Gayle, Andre Fletcher, Andre Russell, Jason Holder, Fabian Allen, Dwayne Bravo, Kevin Sinclair, Fidel Edwards, Obed McCoy

So my XI would be:

Evin Lewis
Lendl Simmons
Chris Gayle
Nicholas Pooran
Kieron Pollard
Andre Russell
Fabian Allen
Jason Holder
Dwayne Bravo
Kevin Sinclair
Fidel Edwards

Ridiculous hitting power.

Russell and Pollard should be opening in t20. Gayle can bat 3