Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Haha, yeah he was 17 when he debuted for Otago. I remember thinking last year that he must be pushing 30 by now until I actually checked his profile.
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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
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Nathan Smith 22 (1110 runs @ 28, 50 wickets @ 37), probably as bowling allrounder / 4th seamer, but could end up batting at #6
Limited FC experience but watch out for in 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons:
Joey Field 20 (bowling allrounder / 3rd-4th seamer, good fit in 2024+ test team with Ravindra + 3 specialist quicks)
Matthew Fisher 21 (specialist quick)
Magrat Garlick
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I'm surprised too, been ages since Warwick Avenue came out
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Ajaz 32 debuted at 30. Will Somerville 37-38 debuted at 36. Young debuted at 28. It looks like you need to be closer to 30 or over to get a go.
Got to change this attitude. Most of these guys that are performing right now debuted early 20. I don't know why they don't introduce Sears. Other than of course the injuries he's had it's very clear he's going to be one of the very few in the world that'll be bowling at that pace.
Got to change this attitude. Most of these guys that are performing right now debuted early 20. I don't know why they don't introduce Sears. Other than of course the injuries he's had it's very clear he's going to be one of the very few in the world that'll be bowling at that pace.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Of the bowlers I think the three that'll go in to play black caps for many years, Sears, Fischer and Nathan Smith.
Fraser Sheat, no chance unless he can put in another 10k. Will Williams no chance either despite how many wickets he'll grab over the next few years.
Fraser Sheat, no chance unless he can put in another 10k. Will Williams no chance either despite how many wickets he'll grab over the next few years.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
You know the best result of this year's firebirds signing? I get to watch 4 of my favorite young cricketers Sears, Smith, Allen and Ravindra. Add to thatb when Conway is available. That's like kid in a candy store. Won't leave a single game unwatched live at basin. I may even start traveling and watch firebirds elsewhere too 
Flem274*
123/5
Strong disagree. We debuted Southee, Boult, Williamson etc early because we had to. It's not a nice position to be in. Southee and Williamson took literally 2-4 years of test cricket to reach international standard.
Their early handling of Jamieson was practically perfect, likewise Will Young. They were both guys we fans looked at and said "geez if he puts on 10kph he's going to be terrifying" or "if he could turn 70s into 140s he's going to be a serious player."
Jamieson did put on 10kph, and Young did learn to convert his starts into massive scores. Maybe Young in particular has missed out on a 100 test career because he didn't debut at 23, but NZ are a better squad because he had to force his way in with massive tons.
The collective result comes before the individual in team sport. It sucks for Lockie Ferguson he isn't already a 20 test veteran like he would be in 2005, but it's great for us to have him in the reserves.
The exceptional will force their way in regardless. Williamson did, Southee did, Boult did, Ravindra is oh so close and averaging 38 as an opener in the Plunket Shield as a 21 year old is no joke. Ben Sears is a proper season of first class cricket with results away from the squad I imagine.
This is really, really good. Players debuting late or missing out on test careers because of extreme competition is great for a national side. This is what we want.
Flem274*
123/5
Sheat may have a role to play at home or in England in his current form. He's bloody effective. Fisher maybe but we need to stop buying the kool aid from Howsie. I can state for a solid 100% fact he is not bowling 150kph, as extremely funny as I would find that because reasons.
Fisher is, however, really promising and could well go on to be slippery quick in time. He's 135kph to 140 though, going from the comments from people who know.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
I'm not buying into someone's opinion about Fischer. I watched him bowl to firebirds at basin. Sure Rachin smashed him around but everyone was smashed that day by Rachin. He was in the mood to destroy coming back after a long lay off. Fischer didn't bowl badly, the scores won't reflect that but seeing him bowl, nice action, hits good areas and is closer to 140k. He was quicker than Kuggs. I'm guessing he's 21, that's impressive. Has a bright future.
Flem274*
123/5
yeah he might be quick on his day and i like you but trust me he's 135 most days.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
How do you know if we had Lockie playing earlier wouldn't have added to the favorable result we produced early to mid last decade? Jamieson got a go by chance. They got lucky and he never gave a chance to be dropped. If he didn't go all right in couple of games we'd have brought in Henry.
Santner was still preferred on this tour.
We have got away with some shabby selections results not withstanding. Hope we find a balance. That's all I want to see and not end up in that horrible hole we ended up in late 2000s once all the senior players retired.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
Got to see him play more plunket shield. He'll get there in couple of years.
Sears is closer, he's in the winter black caps training squad and so is Smith and Rae. We'll see some of these guys make the squad to Pakistan, Bangladesh and India if the tours happen.
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
Gotta agree with Steph here, this "pick the young guys who show any minor talent" Greg Chappell ethos has done more damage then good. Only players who have shown talent under this method for us either got dropped after being **** at the start and cane back (Smith) or are undoubtly freaks but to early so say if they won't have Smith syndrome (Green, Pucovski.) You pick the guys who are dominating domestic.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Southee strikes me as someone who will want to do the Anderson/McGrath thing and will probably retire when he's 39. If he's still good enough then, mind you.
nzfan
International Vice-Captain
If we pick guys who are dominating domestic cricket we will have a plethora of 125 k bowlers who look like Anderson on our tailor made pitches at home. With the bat we will have all hackers picked. NZ domestic scene is different from Aussie. Australia has true pitches where good batsmen, bowlers and spinners can thrive. Easy to sort out gold from dust but not so clear here. We bank on ability rather than runs or wickets. Jamieson was not unbelievable. In fact he barely picked a wicket in UAE playing for NZ A but we know he had to be picked. Henry Nicholls averaged like 32 batting in the middle order for Canterbury when he got the gig to play for NZ A and rest is history. Our set up is very different from Aussie or any other country in fact. Early recognition of talent and nurturing them through our winter training, NZ A programme and to having them in the squad is the way to go. That's what we've been doing of late.
Flem274*
123/5
No you're stuck in the 90s.
Last season our pitches were dogshit, but prior to that the cream rose to the top since 2011 or so. Colin Munro was the only biffer who succeeded, based on a strong Auckland record and an incredible eye.
Early recognition of talent has a place but ultimately constricts your player pool and throws in young talent before they are ready, as we have repeatedly discovered until 2015 or so. The men who have risen to the top under this regime have been 25+ domestic pros and great NZ A players. CDG, Daryl Mitchell, Will Young, Devon Conway, Ajaz Patel, Tom Blundell, Will Somerville....Kyle Jamieson became a new bowler after being with the squad, seeing where he needed to improve and returning to Auckland to dominate. He was good in the Shield prior though, at about the Duffy/Bracewell/Kuggeleijn level.
If you look at the best bowlers in the Plunket Shield of the regulars, Kyle Jamieson, Lockie Ferguson, Hamish Bennett, Matt Henry, Will Williams and Fraser Sheat dominate with Devon Conway, Will Young and recently Mark Chapman being the premier batsmen. Most classic NZ corridor medium pacers like Doug Bracewell have slipped into the second tier. Jacob Duffy has late arrived to the party and good on him.
I'm concerned the "dukeaburra" will combine with green early season pitches to turn us into the mess that is county cricket but if we get rid of it and Williams/Sheat are still terrifying then fair game to them. That's actually my only concern with domestic cricket atm barring game time - we really don't need the stupid duke ball influence making Colin de Grandhomme more valuable than Lockie Ferguson.
Henry Nicholls and Kyle Jamieson were the only talent spots we've had recently barring the obvious Ravindra, and apprenticeships with the larger touring squad and NZ A are by no means a bad thing.
We don't need to throw players at the dart board anymore. The Plunket Shield is good enough with pitches and the ball resembling NZ test conditions to show who can play well in home tests, with a bit of early season spice and late season meme spin.
Apart from the Cantabrians and McEwan I can't think of too many trundlers who are actually good anymore at domestic level. Even the new ball bully Seth Rance bowls at 135kph and swings it both ways, which makes him pretty good anywhere in the world for FC.