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*Official* New Zealand in England 2021

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I don't mind him being held accountable or even the ban tbh. The way they've handled it borders on bullying though and I wouldn't take any 'player wellbeing' talk seriously from them in the future.
Bullying, bloody hell talk about Snowflakes
 

SteveNZ

International Coach
because a fine and other contributions mean next to nothing, again it's hopefully just a one match ban, giving his performance I'm pretty sure he'll be back, no reason for gnashing of teeth.
OK, well I'd suggest that a one-match ban does nothing more than appease people who want to get up in arms about something that had to be vigorously dug up to even bring into the light of day. Aren't 'punishments' or repercussions meant to address behaviour and ensure that those and others won't do it again for fear of retribution? Because a ban doesn't achieve that.

**** me, let's just recap that for this to be a thing, someone had to trawl through a timeline deeper and deeper until they came across something and most likely, they then spied the opportunity to release it to the media who revel in making a big deal out of anything they can get their hands on. It was not sitting there waiting to cause offense. Had no one trawled, it would never have been a thing. Someone made Ollie Robinson's life harder, that's all they did. Nothing else. And a ban will achieve nothing else either
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
OK, well I'd suggest that a one-match ban does nothing more than appease people who want to get up in arms about something that had to be vigorously dug up to even bring into the light of day. Aren't 'punishments' or repercussions meant to address behaviour and ensure that those and others won't do it again for fear of retribution? Because a ban doesn't achieve that.

**** me, let's just recap that for this to be a thing, someone had to trawl through a timeline deeper and deeper until they came across something and most likely, they then spied the opportunity to release it to the media who revel in making a big deal out of anything they can get their hands on. It was not sitting there waiting to cause offense. Had no one trawled, it would never have been a thing. Someone made Ollie Robinson's life harder, that's all they did. Nothing else. And a ban will achieve nothing else either
It will achieve making young players not saying stupid things on social media, and not then making a mockery of any anti-racist, anti-***ist, anti-bullying messages that the boards they wish to represent wish to put out in the future, if they pick them.

Oh and clearly it was there, not really sure of that point you are making, it was there to make hilarious fun of race and sluts and Maddie Mccann and whatever, he didn't have to post that crap, to try to take any blame from him as this poor naive 18 year old is odd.

Again though, one match ban seems appropriate and we can move on.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The game was fine. The declarationn was a bit more positive and daring than I expected from KW. So well done to him on that. England played well but going for the draw was always their best option unless Root got on a roll towards the end. And he did try, I think. Can't blame either side for how the game was played out, except maybe NZ playing a little too defensively yesterday when they were batting.

The tweet thing is a big issue coz of the timing of it all. Its unfortunate that Ollie Robinson is paying the price after a great debut for what is really ECB's incompetence in not combing his social media stuff before he debuted. But those were bad tweets and hopefully he does learn his lessons and is a better person for it from this experience.

And the tweets by Buttler, BMac and Morgan do not offend me much and I find it silly and even a bit funny but I said this elsewhere as well, its not for me to decide this as an Indian who lives in India. There are many Indians who face racist and other stereotypes and are often not treated equal where they live overseas and if this kind of racist "humor" is part of what they face and is a larger sign of more racist undertones in people's thoughts, then it should be deemed racist and offensive. You can't have differing standards within the same organization.
 

vandem

State Captain
Any thoughts on NZ team selection for 2nd test? I assume Stead and Kane will work backwards from WTC Final, where de Grandhomme + 4 quicks is the likely attack - unless pitch is VERY brown and Santner takes the all-rounder spot.

So:
de Grandhomme plays, needs more game time, unlucky for Mitchell.
Santner plays again. Sigh. They missed a chance to give Santner a "post-IPL recovery break" and see how Ravindra coped at this level. Too late now.
Boult plays, Jamieson rested.
Southee and Wagner and management discuss workload and any minor fitness niggles, suspect they will rest one of them and give Henry a run, then put the other on a lighter workload, e.g. max 15 overs a day. Neither will want to be rested.

Unlucky for Patel - but to be in the mix for the playing XI he needs one of the four top quicks to be injured.
 

Arachnodouche

International Captain
Hearing comments (tweets by Bumble tbf) that this was an all time bad test. I don’t get it. Relatively closely contested, good balance between bat and ball, the team who were a bit behind the game batted well to save it. Would have been an excellent test but for a day rained off. Since when was test cricket *not* about that.
It was a fine Test. The decisive thrust never came but so be it. We've become far too used to grandstand finishes. A Test can also be thought of and played in terms of feeling the opposition out, playing within your limitations, and hedging your bets until the right opportunity beckons. There was good bowling and some gutsy batting on display so no complaints.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
I Cbf actually checking but I feel we always lose the first test on an overseas tour only to come back strong in the second (apart from Australia). Usually in those first tests a few players look rusty prompting DrOp ThEm calls.
 

JOJOXI

International Captain
I do think it is a tough situation for the ECB. I do think the severity of his comments have been downplayed. I'm not saying its a hangable offence or anything but so many comments that no one is perfect/we all regret stuff we done as youngsters. I think there is a sizeable gap from not being perfect and being ***ist/racist.


I'm not sure I'd have banned him but also don't think the ban is worthy of the outrage its generating from some sections - if they say he can never play Test Cricket again that's a different thing, if they take stock of things leave him out of the 2nd Test and go from there that doesn't seem especially outrageous.


Personally, I'd try to get Robinson going into local schools. I'm relatively young and would have been in secondary school only a few years after he was. I recall often a Media Studies teacher would use parts of some assemblies to talk about responsible usage of social media, employers looking at your social media pages etc. There were never any real case studies but rather just a scary teacher trying to scare you. Assuming this is the same around the country - how much more effective would these talks be if you had Robinson who could show what they posted, what they've learnt since posting and how it affected him - his tweets coming back to haunt him and overshadowing a moment he would have dreamt of as well as making England selection in the future that bit tougher.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
Has it actually been confirmed that he'll only miss the one game? All I've seen is that he's been indefinitely suspended pending an investigation which strikes me as ridiculous and unfair, both to the broader cause and to Robinson himself. What exactly is there to investigate? The comments are pretty hard to interpret in anything other than the obvious way. Ban the guy for a game, which is a pretty harsh (though IMO fair) punishment under the circumstances and move on.

Don't play the man, play the ball.

What is to be gained out of a ban that a fine and other contributions wouldn't achieve?
I mean in practice I'm not convinced that fines have any material deterrent effect on professional sportsmen -- especially professional sportsmen at the dawn of their elite international careers -- at all. How many fines did the ICC hand out over slow overrates over the last fifteen years before the new (and IMO very dumb) system was put in place, and how much impact did that have?
 
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TheJediBrah

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Has it actually been confirmed that he'll only miss the one game? All I've seen is that he's been indefinitely suspended pending an investigation which strikes me as ridiculous and unfair, both to the broader cause and to Robinson himself. What exactly is there to investigate? The comments are pretty hard to interpret in anything other than the obvious way. Ban the guy for a game, which is a pretty harsh (though IMO fair) punishment under the circumstances and move on.
This isn't anything new. People have been losing jobs due to historical social media posts for years now, and it's almost never a fair or just response, and is almost 100% of the time just an organisation trying to appease a (sometimes imaginary) baying mob.

Cancel culture is a problem, but then so is being a dumb **** that left stupid comments he made as a kid undeleted on twitter (not to mention posting them in the first place).
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Ideal to have Ravindra as a swap for Santner but not going to happen under this regime. They are not risk takers with selections. He might as well pack his bags along with Duffy. They won't be in the fifteen for wtc finals. If rachin was in the mix he'd have played ahead of Santner already. I think Kane and Stead will continue to play Santner and we'll likely see Henry as well. Most radical change they may play Ajaz.

Jamieson, Southee and BJ need a break imo. Don't break them already, preserve them for the finals.

I'd take Blundell, Doug/Darryl and Ravindra as replacements for BJ,CDG and Santner. Helps pick the best team for finals. Don't mind Ajaz but will lower our batting a bit. Depends on the deck too. If it's green go with Ravindra otherwise Ajaz.

Kane and Steady will likely make two changes imo, Henry for Southee and Ajaz for Santner if he's not fit. If Santner is fit he'll continue to play :wallbash:

I backed Santner for the first test yes but won't mince he was rubbish. Will never back his selection unless he's actively playing first class. Kane defending his selection is a hogwash. In the press release he said Santner would have bowled better if the stumping went his way. In the very first place playing Santner was wrong given he didn't bowl in the inter squad game and had an injury. The bloke went into the test match with bowling in the nets, no match practice and was in the t20 league prior. Particularly when they had other options in Ajaz and Ravindra who have played first class recently. It's time they own up their selection gaffe. It's time they moved on from Santner. He shouldn't have been on the tour and shouldn't be in the 15 for wtc finals. Yes 360 degree turn from me on Santner but this was the last nail. I over rated his batting and bowling. He just doesn't have it unfortunately in red ball cricket. No matter how many times he's backed he won't cut it for now. Feel sorry for the bloke, no one goes out to perform badly but he has not helped himself. He needs to go back to first class, bowl heaps there, improve both his bowling and batting if he needs to make the team as an all rounder. No reason why he can't sign up with county cricket. That'll do him wonders. He won't as long as Kane and Steady keep picking him in the side and he's unavailable to play first class. He's still quite young and spinners develop around 30 but he needs to be bowling lots more. Not in the nets but in the game. Surely a county will pick him if he puts his hand up.

Kane and Steady will do a massive favor to Santner by moving on from him. That'll help him immensely I feel. He's still got time on his hand.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Has it actually been confirmed that he'll only miss the one game? All I've seen is that he's been indefinitely suspended pending an investigation which strikes me as ridiculous and unfair, both to the broader cause and to Robinson himself. What exactly is there to investigate? The comments are pretty hard to interpret in anything other than the obvious way. Ban the guy for a game, which is a pretty harsh (though IMO fair) punishment under the circumstances and move on.



I mean in practice I'm not convinced that fines have any material deterrent effect on professional sportsmen -- especially professional sportsmen at the dawn of their elite international careers -- at all. How many fines did the ICC hand out over slow overrates over the last fifteen years before the new (and IMO very dumb) system was put in place, and how much impact did that have?
It isn't sure it's just one match, but I am hoping it is, next Test in August.

Oh and in reply to JediBrah cancel culture is not a thing, let alone a problem.
 

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
“I thought Mitch bowled really well in that first innings and could easily have picked up 2-3 wickets and cleaned them up 50-60 runs earlier and the game might have looked different,” Stead said. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

“I absolutely think having a spinner in the team was the right decision in this test match. The pitches here provide us with a slightly different outlook to New Zealand. A spinner is certainly, when we look at Edgbaston, a likely course of action.”

26 tests and counting. Easily? Could have, should have, would have.... seriously. Santner vs India, makes me nervous. They've taken warne, murali in their best form to cleaners. Just play fast bowlers please.

Stead has been very good, solid thoughtful coach but has totally missed his mark with spin bowling option. Wonder when did Santner last play for NZ A? Would been interesting to check.
 
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grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
evidently it is
You said yourself in your post people have lost jobs due to crap social media posting for years, you actually pretty much said evidently it isn't, so why is cancel culture now a thing, it's just a meaningless catchphrase.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well that's a spiffing point, no idea what it meant, but spiffing nonetheless.
The point is that Gillespie knows the guy well and is prominent in the area of racial tolerance in sports

If he’s okay with who Robinson is as a 27yo man then I am not going to bash him for something that he did as a kid

This is a PR exercise from the ECB
 

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