Euro 2020 General Discussion

[thundaboult]

I'm not sure who I'd drop for Bamford really in that 33 - maybe Greenwood? But Greenwood an option to play off the right and I have no qualms about the 3 other strikers ahead of him.

In fairness to Southgate I think he has a very tough task. I think there is a tendency to overhype the England players and the last few tournaments haven't necessarily been won by sides burying their opponents. Portugal probably the most famous example in the last Euros but France edging past Peru and Australia and drawing with Denmark in the group stage of the last World Cup before finding their feet in the tougher knockout games.

Germany drew with Ghana, beat the USA 1-0 in the group stage, beat Algeria and Argentina after extra time between their big wins in group stage v Portugal and knockouts v Brazil.

I suspect a lot of it is to do with the club season dominating the football calendar so not only are players potentially a bit tired from a long season in some cases but they are not necessarily all that used to playing with some players in some instances especially when often it seems like there are a lot of rotated sides in International football - there isn't really one side that is going to dominate the England XI either. I wonder if that justifies a more cautious approach especially when a side has something to defend. I also wonder how much is tactical and how much is mental. Just as an example - pressing super high when you have a lead is probably easier to do if you are Liverpool and are playing and training with the same defence (injury crisis aside) regularly and being coached by a top manager. Doing it with a lower quality manager (I think that would be the case whoever managed England in all likelihood) - with a defence you are not overly familiar with when you have a lead is probably a lot harder.

Harry Maguire recently had an interview with gary neville. He said that in SF game against croatia, they lost total control in the second half because of playing with fear + protecting the lead. Would not be surprised if Southgate's half time talk was all about defending like crazy and not taking any risks/building a play in croatia's final third. The defensive mindset allowed Modric and co to creep back into the game and eventually, nick us out at the end. The game against Colombia was also another example. I believe we now have the creative guys in midfield and wings to consistently unlock defenses. Lets give our squad that's loaded with players who specialize in attacking a license. Go on and score some goals. Zip the ball around and excite us.

I do feel for tomori, bamford and Maddison and on not even being included in a 33 man squad though, JFL. If euros had gone on as planned last year, Ings would have been kane's backup. Pity.

 

[wpdavid]

Granted I haven't come across the Maguire interview, but I think you're putting your own slant on it. I do remember us having other chances against Croatia when one goal up but eventually being over-run in midfield. If anything, Southgate was too slow to bring on another, more defensive midfielder to help us retain possession. I wouldn't want to presume what he may or may not have said at half time.

 

[Furball]

The depth of talent England have is genuinely ridiculous now. That coupled with home advantage means it'll be a bit of a failure of Southgate fails to win it.

 

[JOJOXI]

Neither have I seen the Maguire interview but I think being cagey when you have the lead would be understandable anyway in a World Cup semi. Liverpool v Man Utd is often cagey and they often have world-class attackers who have the fluency of playing each other game in, game out and a World Cup semi-final is an even bigger game with a worse squad of players.

Granted I haven't come across the Maguire interview, but I think you're putting your own slant on it. I do remember us having other chances against Croatia when one goal up but eventually being over-run in midfield. If anything, Southgate was too slow to bring on another, more defensive midfielder to help us retain possession. I wouldn't want to presume what he may or may not have said at half time.

Does that perhaps come down to footballing culture as well - someone like a Jorginho or even a Pogba at times are underappreciated for what they can provide to a team so you don't necessarily have the same level of quality in midfielders who aren't necessarily your strongest players or best tacklers but can dictate the game from a deep role at a very high level.

The depth of talent England have is genuinely ridiculous now. That coupled with home advantage means it'll be a bit of a failure of Southgate fails to win it.

I do think the squad is overrated - not to say there aren't good players or plenty of talent but I think someone like a France has a far better starting XI and squad. Home advantage is an interesting point though - it certainly seemed to help Russia in the World Cup!

 

[Lillian Thomson]

The likelihood of Southgate telling his team to “sit back and defend like crazy” or not to risk any build up in the Croatia final third is practically nil. It’s totally against what he wants to do.

 

[thundaboult]

The likelihood of Southgate telling his team to “sit back and defend like crazy” or not to risk any build up in the Croatia final third is practically nil. It’s totally against what he wants to do.

Man, I really think he is that defensive minded. Hopefully he makes me eat my words in 2 weeks from now. Personally, my starting 11 against croatia would be

Pickford

Walker Stones Maguire Shaw

Rice Bellginham

Mount

Sancho Kane Foden


About Maguire's fitness, if not...yikes I don't know who else, Godfrey? Really feel Tomori would be a good shout too. Maybe Konsa...

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Giggs is out of the Euros and going to trial in January.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Greenwood has withdrawn from the England squad so not in contention for the final 26.

 

[Uppercut]

I do think the squad is overrated - not to say there aren't good players or plenty of talent but I think someone like a France has a far better starting XI and squad. Home advantage is an interesting point though - it certainly seemed to help Russia in the World Cup!

Yeah I think it's overrated. They're stacked in some areas and light in others. Grealish, Mount and Foden are three of their four stand-out players this season, along with Kane, and even getting two of them into the team requires a bit of shuffling. Sancho might not get used at all. Then they have four good right-backs.

But they have no convincing keeper, no CB depth, a pretty mediocre midfield (how good is Declan Rice really?). I don't think they'll be anything special.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

England have a great squad for a Pep-style 4-3-3 setup., but you're right that they're overloaded with skilled forwards and lacking in some key areas. Will be a pretty interesting Euros.

 

[Pothas]

I really want him just to play Mount, Grealish and Foden and just see what happens.

I kind of agree but only France have an obviously better squad?

 

[wpdavid]

Overrated in the usual places, I suppose. I think most of us have a more balanced view. I would suggest that the midfield are probably a couple of years away from being top class simply because they're so young at present. The CBs are a worry - Maguire due to injury and Stones due to being accident prone. And who's going to score the goals if Kane is injured again? My biggest worry is that there seems to be a growing anti-Southgate faction who will be very vocal indeed if we're deemed to have underachieved.

 

[wpdavid]

I really want him just to play Mount, Grealish and Foden and just see what happens.

I kind of agree but only France have an obviously better squad?

Granted there are folks who are far more knowledgeable than me about other countries' players. But isn't part of this just that we're so much more familiar with our guys than whoever is coming through the ranks in Italy, Spain or Germany? And Belgium are pretty strong too, iirc, even without De Bruyne.

And I could cope with Grealish playing in an advanced role in 4-3-3 too, with Mount, Rice and Foden playing behind the front three. Probably with Sancho on the right, as I'm willing to believe what people tell me about his performances in Germany . Not that I think that's how England play nowadays.

I can see why we're fancied as one of the favourites, but our track record in the euros is so awful that I'm going to revert to type here.

 

[sledger]

Surely Henderson will start.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Agree with the not-too-lofty expectations above.

England aren’t quite top of the pile in terms of pure talent, but more than that it’s far from clear who their best XI is or even what system they’ll play. The list of players who both have a proven international track record and are coming off a decent season is incredibly short. Kane, Maguire, Walker, maybe Trippier? And two of those are likely competing for the same spot in the team (together with ~half the squad).

There’re enough promising players that we could have a good tournament, as well as the fond memories of doing well under Southgate at the last WC with perhaps an even worse squad, but we’re reliant on several young players who have hardly played together to suddenly click.

 

[wpdavid]

Surely Henderson will start.

I had this conversation with someone else the other day. He strongly agreed with you. I wasn't so sure, as he's barely played for ages, and actually I don't think he's as good as the younger guys. Especially as he's playing in a more advanced role nowadays, and is therefore competing with Mount and Foden instead of Rice. But maybe that's just me.

 

[sledger]

I had this conversation with someone else the other day. He strongly agreed with you. I wasn't so sure, as he's barely played for ages, and actually I don't think he's as good as the younger guys. Especially as he's playing in a more advanced role nowadays, and is therefore competing with Mount and Foden instead of Rice. But maybe that's just me.

he probably isn't, and he probably shouldn't start, but I bet he will

 

[Uppercut]

I really want him just to play Mount, Grealish and Foden and just see what happens.

I kind of agree but only France have an obviously better squad?

Yeah I wouldn't say anyone has an obviously better squad.

Just stuff like being ranked as bigger favourites than Belgium when they were in the same Nations League group and Belgium were clearly much better. I guess home advantage is significant though.

 

[Pothas]

Granted there are folks who are far more knowledgeable than me about other countries' players. But isn't part of this just that we're so much more familiar with our guys than whoever is coming through the ranks in Italy, Spain or Germany? And Belgium are pretty strong too, iirc, even without De Bruyne.

And I could cope with Grealish playing in an advanced role in 4-3-3 too, with Mount, Rice and Foden playing behind the front three. Probably with Sancho on the right, as I'm willing to believe what people tell me about his performances in Germany . Not that I think that's how England play nowadays.

I can see why we're fancied as one of the favourites, but our track record in the euros is so awful that I'm going to revert to type here.

This is definitely something that happens a lot but we don't tend to hype England up much on here. We know so much more about what is going on in other countries now as well.

Belgium was the other one I was going to mention but that defence looks pretty old.

 

[sledger]

Agree with the not-too-lofty expectations above.

England aren’t quite top of the pile in terms of pure talent, but more than that it’s far from clear who their best XI is or even what system they’ll play. The list of players who both have a proven international track record and are coming off a decent season is incredibly short. Kane, Maguire, Walker, maybe Trippier? And two of those are likely competing for the same spot in the team (together with ~half the squad).

There’re enough promising players that we could have a good tournament, as well as the fond memories of doing well under Southgate at the last WC with perhaps an even worse squad, but we’re reliant on several young players who have hardly played together to suddenly click.

Sometimes I think that can be an advantage tbh. I'd rather work on this basis than going for a tried and tested combination of players who are known to repeatedly churn out turgid performances (i.e., England 2008 - 2018).