What is your ALL TIME WORLD XI TEAM for tests?

[RossTaylorsBox]

Tamil erasure

 

[Burgey]

I’d take Warne over Murali as a person. **** Murali.

Now you mention it, I suppose they both think thought they were bigger than the game, just Warne only commentates like that's the case, whereas Murali and friends spat the dummy so a law had to be changed to accommodate him.

Yeah, I'm with you actually.

 

[akilana]

Wow that’s interesting. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen again. What does Australia plan to do about it now?

 

[Burgey]

I don't think they care tbh. It's not like him being allowed to bowl caused them any problems.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

So much drivel in this thread.

Warne vs Murali can early descend into removing stats in many different ways. If you remove Murali's stats against minnows, Murali fans will say to remove stats against Australia. Australian fans will then say if we do that, we should look at away records only because Murali played in a home county that favoured spin. If we do that Murali fans will say Warne got most of those wickets feasting on hapless English batsmen. By the time we're done removing stats, both of them took a dozen wickets at an advocate of 25 in a simulated game against ATG players.

Fact is that they were both fine bowlers who had similar weaknesses (record against India in India, periods of relative mediocrity (start of Murali's career, middle of Warne's)). They're both the top two wicket takers in history. Which one you pick is probably based more on how they did against/ for your team than anything else.

Also, wpm either means little or Lillee should be rated more highly by those on this site. It only seems to be used when denigrating an obvious ATG. Fact is it has more to do with bowling workload and support than much else.

Miller was a top 30 quick bowler when I did my fast bowler survival last year and that's probably fair. Extremely valuable player and only overshadowed by 25 other guys from half a dozen nations in a hundred years of cricket. Sounds like an ATG to me, especially when you factor in his batting and his war injury which meant he bowled with back pain for most of his career. Kapil was not as good with bat or ball, despite being a very fine bowler and clearly amongst the top two Indian pace bowlers ever.

Akthar 31
Miller 33
Anderson 34
Kapil 41

All ATVGs... Not ATGs

If you are saying Batting and Injury stopped him from being an ATG, its fine.. But the fact is he is not an ATG.

Lillee is a top tier ATG and I rate him among Top 5 quicks of modern era, along with Akram, Marshall, Hadlee and Steyn.

WPM shouldn't be an issue if it is in normal range for a very good specialist bowler. In Miller's case its exceptionally poor. It could have been excused for a bowler of 80s WI team, but even all those Windies pacers managed 4 wpm in a super competitive bowling team. Either Miller was Lazy or he was unfit. He averaged less than 2 wickets per match in FC.

 

[akilana]

I don't think they care tbh. It's not like him being allowed to bowl caused them any problems.

Cost them a WC.

 

[Burgey]

I think if you aren't including McGrath in your top five modern quicks it's a pretty startling omission tbh,

 

[akilana]

Nah, it was however the start of the great - and so far unending - SC cricketing victim-complex era

Do you think the racial abuse by the Australian crowd is caused by this line of thinking?

 

[Burgey]

Cost them a WC.

Murali didn't cost them a WC, poor bowling and fielding did along with Aravinda da Silva. If Aus could nominate an opposition bowler in that game to bowl 20 overs it'd be him. I pretty much watched every series he ever played vs Aus across all formats and was never worried he was going to rout Aus and cause us to lose a game/ series. Was basically a non-event. A bit of a novelty but never a threat. Much like SL itself for the most part tbh.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Akthar 31
Miller 33
Anderson 34
Kapil 41

All ATVGs... Not ATGs

If you are saying Batting and Injury stopped him from being an ATG, its fine.. But the fact is he is not an ATG.

Lillee is a top tier ATG and I rate him among Top 5 quicks of modern era, along with Akram, Marshall, Hadlee and Steyn.

WPM shouldn't be an issue if it is in normal range for a very good specialist bowler. In Miller's case its exceptionally poor. It could have been excused for a bowler of 80s WI team, but even all those Windies pacers managed 4 wpm in a super competitive bowling team. Either Miller was Lazy or he was unfit. He averaged less than 2 wickets per match in FC.

How are you still going? Whether Miller is an ATG player is not in question. His batting and bowling together put any doubts about that to bed.

It seems you are ignoring he could bat at all, but even then the only thing you keep going on about his wpm, which I'll point out again, was only 0.2 lower than Kapil's. Miller took 3.1 wickets per Test and Kapil took 3.3. The only reason Miller's isn't much higher was because he wasn't needed to bowl as much in the team's he played in, and 3.1 wickets per match is not even bad for an all-rounder at all.

Just quit it with this false narrative.

I think if you aren't including McGrath in your top five modern quicks it's a pretty startling omission tbh,

lol how did I miss that

 

[Burgey]

Do you think the racial abuse by the Australian crowd is caused by this line of thinking?

Nah racial abuse is generally caused by the people who do it being idiots.

 

[akilana]

Miller played against farmers and plumbers. He wouldn’t make the current England XI over Sam Curran.

 

[Burgey]

akilana seems to be on the verge of having a Pratters/ HB-style melt down here.

 

[akilana]

Murali didn't cost them a WC, poor bowling and fielding did along with Aravinda da Silva. If Aus could nominate an opposition bowler in that game to bowl 20 overs it'd be him. I pretty much watched every series he ever played vs Aus across all formats and was never worried he was going to rout Aus and cause us to lose a game/ series. Was basically a non-event. A bit of a novelty but never a threat. Much like SL itself for the most part tbh.

How did you handle losing to SL in a WC final? Was this the lowest point in your lifetime of watching cricket?

 

[Burgey]

Oh god no. I watched Australia in the late-70s and the mid-80s. Losing a WC to SL was kind of cute. Far more embarrassed by the efforts back during WSC and the rebel tour eras. Of course losing at home to India is probably the lowest point since those days, but not as bad as them, because I've been vindicated in my long held stance that India would only ever get decent when they had good quicks. Probably something SL should aspire to having as well.

If Aus loses a test to SL at home, that will be a genuinely low moment. Not likely to happen in the foreseeable future, but you never know.

 

[OverratedSanity]

because I've been vindicated in my long held stance that India would only ever get decent when they had good quicks.

Yeah no, Australia got spun out by Ashwin Jadeja and Sundar. Bumrah didnt even need to be at his best this time.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I think if you aren't including McGrath in your top five modern quicks it's a pretty startling omission tbh,

Top 7 bowler, Top 6 pacer. You can have him higher.. I think my ranking is pretty reasonable.

Akram
Marshall
Hadlee
Murali
Steyn
Lillee
Mcgrath
Warne

 

[Burgey]

Nah the quicks set the tone. Bowled really well. Factor in next-to-last tour as well, not just the recent one.

Besides, Ashwin and Jadeja don't spin it outside home dustbowls. They bowl slow. But yes, certainly contributed very well this tour just gone.

 

[Burgey]

Top 7 bowler, Top 6 pacer. You can have him higher.. I think my ranking is pretty reasonable.

Akram
Marshall
Hadlee
Murali
Steyn
Lillee
Mcgrath
Warne

Nah your ranking is rubbish not right imho if he isn't in the top 2-3 fast bowlers of all time, frankly. Bowled in the least fast bowler-friendly era of those you've listed and averaged as good or better than anyone. He had Marshall and Hadlee's average in a much,. much easier batting era than those blokes bowled in.

Wasim one of my faves, but would have him below Marshall, McGrath and possibly Steyn & Hadlee.

Absence of Ambrose from your list somewhat controversial too imho, but hey, it's a preference thing.

Edit: "rubbish" way too harsh on my part given this is a matter of opinion. Apologies.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

How are you still going? Whether Miller is an ATG player is not in question. His batting and bowling together put any doubts about that to bed.

It seems you are ignoring he could bat at all, but even then the only thing you keep going on about his wpm, which I'll point out again, was only 0.2 lower than Kapil's. Miller took 3.1 wickets per Test and Kapil took 3.3. The only reason Miller's isn't much higher was because he wasn't needed to bowl as much in the team's he played in, and 3.1 wickets per match is not even bad for an all-rounder at all.

Just quit it with this false narrative.

lol how did I miss that

Miller is an ATG player, arguably 3rd greatest of alltime ( personally around top 20 for me )
I am talking about his bowling.
Neither Kapil nor Miller was an ATG bowler.
Kapil would have averaged 4 wpm had he played in Miller's team