Greatest finisher and clutch player ever?

[honestbharani]

Yeah but the dressing room pressure is there whether your repping China, India or Nauru.

Depends on how strong the rest of that dressing room is, mate. That is a bigger factor IMO.

 

[Victor Ian]

This is how I see pressure from the public.
For some it makes you perform better as there is the constant reminder to not **** up.
For others they 'crack' under pressure and perform worse.
None of the greats are of the second kind. So all of the greats benefitted from pressure in direct proportion to public adulation times population. So Tendulkar's pressure adjusted average is 43.21

 

[CodeOfWisden]

Spare us this crap about being under more pressure because your population is big. You’re a pro sportsman ffs. Pressure comes from the state of tthe game. Do you reckon Kohli walks out to bat in a big game in SA or NZ and thinks “oh ****, the pressure of people watching on another (sub)continent is just too much?”

Come on. Most ridiculous argument I’ve ever heard run on here, and I’ve had the displeasure to read the gormless collected works of Weldone, HB and the likes of h_hurricane to name but three.

Looks like you wanted to steer the argument in a totally different direction after i pointed out your illogical takes about how a player can be a choker in a specific innings.

Its a fact that t20 WC is important for the Indians and as a result there's a lot of pressure on the players.

I didn't even mention anything about population lol.

 

[Burgey]

Its a fact that t20 WC is important for the Indians and as a result there's a lot of pressure on the players.

An international tournament is going to be important to pro sportspeople. It doesn’t matter where they’re from. It doesn’t matter whether their fans at home think it’s really important or not. The pressure comes from within and from the game situation.

Do you really think Ricky Ponting made 140 on the WC final because he thought it meant a lot to the folks back home? If he worried about **** like that his career would have finished in the Launceston under 14s.

Come on.

 

[Burgey]

Depends on how strong the rest of that dressing room is, mate. That is a bigger factor IMO.

No it really isn’t.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

An international tournament is going to be important to pro sportspeople. It doesn’t matter where they’re from. It doesn’t matter whether their fans at home think it’s really important or not. The pressure comes from within and from the game situation.

Do you really think Ricky Ponting made 140 on the WC final because he thought it meant a lot to the folks back home? If he worried about **** like that his career would have finished in the Launceston under 14s.

Come on.

Ok man....... My post was in response to a poster who said that t20s do not matter.
The fact that Kohli has done well in t20 knockouts tell us that that he can perform under pressure. Choking cannot be format specific

 

[Coronis]

Ok man....... My post was in response to a poster who said that t20s do not matter.
The fact that Kohli has done well in t20 knockouts tell us that that he can perform under pressure. Choking cannot be format specific

Why?

 

[Daemon]

Ok man....... My post was in response to a poster who said that t20s do not matter.
The fact that Kohli has done well in t20 knockouts tell us that that he can perform under pressure. Choking cannot be format specific

Don’t mind Burgey too much, the forum has been trying to get him to improve his posting of late and he hasn’t coped well with the pressure.

 

[honestbharani]

No it really isn’t.

You speak as if you can speak for every human being on earth and like anyone who tries that, you are absolutely unequivocally wrong.

 

[Burgey]

Ok man....... My post was in response to a poster who said that t20s do not matter.
The fact that Kohli has done well in t20 knockouts tell us that that he can perform under pressure. Choking cannot be format specific

Michael Bevan dislikes this post

 

[Burgey]

Depends on how strong the rest of that dressing room is, mate. That is a bigger factor IMO.

You speak as if you can speak for every human being on earth and like anyone who tries that, you are absolutely unequivocally wrong.

ok

 

[stephen]

Ok man....... My post was in response to a poster who said that t20s do not matter.
The fact that Kohli has done well in t20 knockouts tell us that that he can perform under pressure. Choking cannot be format specific

T20s are short enough and you have enough backup that a classy player can swing themselves into a bit of form of they get lucky. There's no real pressure on batsmen about losing their wicket, which is where the pressure on the other formats comes from.

Saying that someone did well in that format and that it proves their strength under pressure is nonsense. It's a format specifically designed to remove pressure from the batsmen. It's fun to watch but citing it as an example of a player's ability to perform under pressure is complete nonsense.

 

[Daemon]

Marcus North was really good under pressure. Always tonned up right when he was about to get dropped.

 

[JBMAC]

Michael Bevan

 

[honestbharani]

ok

IMO stands for In My Opinion, old man.

 

[honestbharani]

T20s are short enough and you have enough backup that a classy player can swing themselves into a bit of form of they get lucky. There's no real pressure on batsmen about losing their wicket, which is where the pressure on the other formats comes from.

Saying that someone did well in that format and that it proves their strength under pressure is nonsense. It's a format specifically designed to remove pressure from the batsmen. It's fun to watch but citing it as an example of a player's ability to perform under pressure is complete nonsense.

Do you seriously think in a tricky chase when you are the set batsman in and new batsmen find it hard to bat coming in, there is no pressure losing your wicket? Classic case of deciding a PoV based on bias.

The format of the game does not matter, the situation of the game is what matters when it comes to batting. Its not like there was pressure chasing 130 in a WC final either. Whatever be the format of the game, there are situations where losing your wicket does not matter and there are situations where it does.

 

[OverratedSanity]

T20s are short enough and you have enough backup that a classy player can swing themselves into a bit of form of they get lucky. There's no real pressure on batsmen about losing their wicket, which is where the pressure on the other formats comes from.

Saying that someone did well in that format and that it proves their strength under pressure is nonsense. It's a format specifically designed to remove pressure from the batsmen. It's fun to watch but citing it as an example of a player's ability to perform under pressure is complete nonsense.

Not that I expect anything less than absolute drivel from you on cricket chat but this is horseshit. The pressure in t20s is immense in terms of scoring rate, not protecting one's wicket. That this needs to even be pointed out is ridiculous. You look at how Yuvraj froze in the t20 final and tell me its a format where batsmen arent under pressure with a straight face. The guy kept swinging and couldnt even get himself out to help his team.

 

[honestbharani]

Also, any spectator sport is more likely to have formats specifically designed to create or increase pressure than remove it.

 

[stephen]

Not that I expect anything less than absolute drivel from you on cricket chat but this is horse****. The pressure in t20s is immense in terms of scoring rate, not protecting one's wicket. That this needs to even be pointed out is ridiculous. You look at how Yuvraj froze in the t20 final and tell me its a format where batsmen arent under pressure with a straight face. The guy kept swinging and couldnt even get himself out to help his team.

There's really not enough time in a T20 for pressure to build. Youvraj could have retired if he was really trying to get out because of the pressure.

If Kohli had have got out swinging early in his big innings you wouldn't use that to say he was bad under pressure. You'd say that he was trying to create something and got out, like the other batsmen that day.

It's a nonsense format that is good for domestics but the quality of the batting is high enough in international matches that each individual batsman has so much license that they can't really feel any pressure until the last couple of overs, and then the "pressure" is "can I hit this ball for 6". That's not real pressure, it's not clutch, it's mostly luck and practice. There's not enough sustained performance for it to be clutch. The thing that makes a performance clutch is that the pressure has to be there for a long enough period that the luck factor is minimised. Look at Stokes knock at Headingly. It wasn't clutch because he had to swing for five overs, it was clutch because he had to shepherd a number 11 for the afternoon, survive and score enough runs to win the test. Ponting's 2003 world cup knock was clutch because he built the innings over a long time and executed perfectly in the biggest stakes game. De Silva's knock in the 96 world cup was clutch because he took absolute control of the match and never let it go. Dhoni in 2011 was clutch because the game situation was bad when he came in and he paced his innings perfectly to get his side home.

ODI cricket has enough time for the game to breathe. Each batsman has a much greater responsibility and mistakes mean more. Innings have to be built and the fielding side can defend and adapt better (though less so in recent times). When was the last time you saw anything but a spread field in a t20? Tests are a different animal all together which can apply even more pressure on batsmen.

I'm not saying that batsmen feel no pressure in t20s, after all, pressure is a feeling. What I am saying is that there's enough luck in t20s that luck and training has far more of an impact on a batsman's innings, even in finals than their ability to withstand pressure.

 

[honestbharani]

There's really not enough time in a T20 for pressure to build. Youvraj could have retired if he was really trying to get out because of the pressure.

If Kohli had have got out swinging early in his big innings you wouldn't use that to say he was bad under pressure. You'd say that he was trying to create something and got out, like the other batsmen that day.

It's a nonsense format that is good for domestics but the quality of the batting is high enough in international matches that each individual batsman has so much license that they can't really feel any pressure until the last couple of overs, and then the "pressure" is "can I hit this ball for 6". That's not real pressure, it's not clutch, it's mostly luck and practice. There's not enough sustained performance for it to be clutch. The thing that makes a performance clutch is that the pressure has to be there for a long enough period that the luck factor is minimised. Look at Stokes knock at Headingly. It wasn't clutch because he had to swing for five overs, it was clutch because he had to shepherd a number 11 for the afternoon, survive and score enough runs to win the test. Ponting's 2003 world cup knock was clutch because he built the innings over a long time and executed perfectly in the biggest stakes game. De Silva's knock in the 96 world cup was clutch because he took absolute control of the match and never let it go. Dhoni in 2011 was clutch because the game situation was bad when he came in and he paced his innings perfectly to get his side home.

ODI cricket has enough time for the game to breathe. Each batsman has a much greater responsibility and mistakes mean more. Innings have to be built and the fielding side can defend and adapt better (though less so in recent times). When was the last time you saw anything but a spread field in a t20? Tests are a different animal all together which can apply even more pressure on batsmen.

I'm not saying that batsmen feel no pressure in t20s, after all, pressure is a feeling. What I am saying is that there's enough luck in t20s that luck and training has far more of an impact on a batsman's innings, even in finals than their ability to withstand pressure.

And by that logic, no ODI knock is as pressure filled as one in tests. Which is just as wrong.