The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Alec Stewart looks like he hit number 2 in the rankings in 1997 while keeping?

I'll be honest, I left Stewart out because it's a hassle to untangle when he kept and when he didn't. You're right he was keeping when he reached #2 but in classic 90s England fashion he'd been playing as a specialist bat in the series prior. So he might well have achieved top 7 based purely on runs as wicketkeeper at some stage, but it's hard to isolate when/if that happened (so I gave up ).

 

[Red]

Tim Paine

what about him?

 

[Red]

I'll be honest, I left Stewart out because it's a hassle to untangle when he kept and when he didn't. You're right he was keeping when he reached #2 but in classic 90s England fashion he'd been playing as a specialist bat in the series prior. So he might well have achieved top 7 based purely on runs as wicketkeeper at some stage, but it's hard to isolate when/if that happened (so I gave up ).

The contrast between Stewart the batsman/keeper and Stewart the batsman is pretty stark. Avg of 34 compared to an avg of 47.

 

[Tom Flint]

42 ave in Sri Lanka for an English south African,aussie or kiwi batsman is nothing to criticise surely

 

[TheJediBrah]

Drop the bad vs India in RSA and therefore good in India doesnt count/ bad in SL and therefore good in RSA vs SL doesnt count spiel. Both or neither.

Don't understand what you're trying to say here but I was just responded to you trying to class SL as "good team" just because it suits you.

Against the two weakest sides he played, Bradmans stats were literally twice as good. I also refuse to consider that he wasn't half bad against the best teams from his era and consider this an indictment rather than the gravy it should be.

Terrible comparison. Bradman didn't play much against those teams, I specifically said that I used AB v WI as an example because he did play a lot against them. You're trying too hard.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm starting to rethink this AB thing a little but anyway. Not the "padded his stats v weaker teams more than most" thing, that definitely holds up, but more the looking at it as though it's necessarily a bad thing. If a player is better at dominating the weaker bowling attacks more than other players it's still a skill that should be valued.

 

[mr_mister]

How high did Denis Lindsay reach in the ICC batting rankings while a keeper? Scored 600 runs in a series

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

How high did Denis Lindsay reach in the ICC batting rankings while a keeper? Scored 600 runs in a series

Not someone I'd thought to check, but he peaked at #14 in the rankings (unsurprisingly during that series).

 

[Tom Flint]

I'm starting to rethink this AB thing a little but anyway. Not the "padded his stats v weaker teams more than most" thing, that definitely holds up, but more the looking at it as though it's necessarily a bad thing. If a player is better at dominating the weaker bowling attacks more than other players it's still a skill that should be valued.

I have always thought this. And its also a negative on players who score less against weaker attacks

 

[Coronis]

The contrast between Stewart the batsman/keeper and Stewart the batsman is pretty stark. Avg of 34 compared to an avg of 47.

Similarly with others who only kept for portions of their careers.
Sangakkara - 40.48 as keeper, 66.78 as batsman
McCullum - 34.18 as keeper, 42.94 as batsman
Walcott - 40.36 as keeper, 64.66 as batsman

Except AB (57.41 as keeper, 48.89 as batsman).

 

[TheJediBrah]

I have always thought this. And its also a negative on players who score less against weaker attacks

One time it is really relevant is if you're comparing 2 players and 1 played a lot more against minnows than the other

like Murali v Warne

My body is ready

 

[mr_mister]

Also murali chucked so there's that

 

[TheJediBrah]

we try not to bring that up it ruins the argument

but yes

 

[Fuller Pilch]

One time it is really relevant is if you're comparing 2 players and 1 played a lot more against minnows than the other

like Murali v Warne

My body is ready

We know that there are question marks over Warnie's stats due to beating up on England and Daryl Cullinan, but he was still quality and not that far behind Murali.

 

[mr_mister]

800 run outs

 

[TheJediBrah]

Warnie's stats due to beating up on England

This is one of the worst myths that gets perpetuated on here by the anti-Warne brigade. Warne averaged 23 against England, not even that much different to his career average. If he averaged 15 or something against England that would be a decent point but in reality it's just an exceedingly ignorant attempt at "no u" whenever Murali's extensive bullying of Zimbabwe and Bangladesh is brought up.

(Not aiming this at you FullerPilch, but rather the posters that try to use that as an argument)

 

[mr_mister]

The ball of the century would have got Sachin out too

 

[ataraxia]

800 run outs

see, Murali is a good fielder...

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Similarly with others who only kept for portions of their careers.
Sangakkara - 40.48 as keeper, 66.78 as batsman
McCullum - 34.18 as keeper, 42.94 as batsman
Walcott - 40.36 as keeper, 64.66 as batsman

Except AB (57.41 as keeper, 48.89 as batsman).

Sanga was just a beast...Prassana was neat with the gloves tho...

 

[sunilz]

The ball of the century would have got Sachin out too

Sidhu would have hit that ball for 6?

Before 2001 series, Warne said that he was happy that there was no Sidhu in 2001 unlike 1998 series. Then Laxman happened ?