Australian test selection 2020/21

[honestbharani]

So Smith has come out and said that Langer has barely coached him at all during his purple patch. So the biggest success story in Australian cricket has little to do with the coach. The evidence is growing that Langer is not the right coach for a national side.

There is a lot to go against Langer but this is just silly. It is actually the sign of a good coach when he sees where he is not needed, tbh. Him letting Smith be may well be the reason he actually found some form in the last two tests.

 

[Spark]

So Smith has come out and said that Langer has barely coached him at all during his purple patch. So the biggest success story in Australian cricket has little to do with the coach. The evidence is growing that Langer is not the right coach for a national side.

Why does this reflect badly on Langer?

 

[Spark]

There is a lot to go against Langer but this is just silly. It is actually the sign of a good coach when he sees where he is not needed, tbh. Him letting Smith be may well be the reason he actually found some form in the last two tests.

And imaging thinking that Steve Smith is in desperate need of coaching. The guy has his own totally unique method and so many intricacies and subtleties to his style that someone who hasn't worked with him his whole career going in dicking around with it would do far more harm than good.

 

[stephen]

Well my point is that it means that of the players Langer *has* coached, only Labuschagne can claim to have had any real success. One out of a dozen or so is not a good strike rate.

Perhaps if he stopped coaching all of the other guys they'd do better.

 

[honestbharani]

Perhaps if he stopped coaching all of the other guys they'd do better.

I dont think he is the only problem but yes, I guess his coaching style has not worked out and they need to look elsewhere now. Based on what I heard on the Grade Cricketer podcasts, he is on borrowed time anyways.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

While searching 'Troy Cooley', I found this post from 2011, and it seems to have been ten years ahead of its time in a way:

Now those are skills that gotta be honed, and if as a quick you have pace to go with those then it can only help.
Brett Lee for ages coped a lot of stick for being a 2 length bowler, but what about the current Aussie quicks, its pretty evident they are just limited to one length.
I don't know whether its some stupid tactic or as you said the Aussie quicks get some pleasure in seeing the batsman duck, sway or get hit but bowling short all day doesn't get you any wickets.
That's where someone like Cooley has been a epic fail, because under his watchful eye most Australian quicks have backtracked and gotten worse rather than improving.
EDIT: Every time I hear Paine's name as a potential Oz captain, as an Aussie fan I start to fear that the worse might yet to be come for us!!!

First, Paine is now captain, so well done.

Secondly, the description of our bowling seems rather familiar. That poster mentions it multiple other times as well.

 

[Prince EWS]

While searching 'Troy Cooley', I found this post from 2011, and it seems to have been ten years ahead of its time in a way:



First, Paine is now captain, so well done.

Secondly, the description of our bowling seems rather familiar. That poster mentions it multiple other times as well.

I can't see pup11's username anymore without thinking about his Smith/Jadeja post.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

That was well before my time one here. Excellent post in retrospect.

 

[Spikey]

iirc that Bangladesh tour was the last time Smith was picked to bowl 5+ overs in ODers. I think David Hussey got recalled after that tour

 

[Red]

iirc that Bangladesh tour was the last time Smith was picked to bowl 5+ overs in ODers. I think David Hussey got recalled after that tour

We've struggled for that reliable genuine 5th bowling option post Symonds.

 

[Spikey]

Steve Smith averaged around 35 in the role iirc

 

[TheJediBrah]

Steve Smith averaged around 35 in the role iirc

He was actually serviceable. Got almost all his wickets caught in the ring or on the fence though.

 

[Starfighter]

While searching 'Troy Cooley', I found this post from 2011, and it seems to have been ten years ahead of its time in a way:
First, Paine is now captain, so well done.
Secondly, the description of our bowling seems rather familiar. That poster mentions it multiple other times as well.

A decade ahead of its time that comment.

I must say that searching for Cooley it was amazing how the praise turned to hate, @Burgey with an especially good about face:

19/11/2007

Johnson's spell here this afternoon vindicates Australia's decision to poach Troy Cooley from England as bowling coach.
Both Lee and Johnson are showing the benefits os accurate reverse swing, whils S Clark has even bowled some outswing in this series from time to time.
These guys are improving, even at this level.

30/12/2010

Tell you who this exposes as a ****ing myth - Troy Cooley. Bloke has had four years to get these blokes up to speed as a bowling unit and they've bloody well gone backwards!! Johnson plays tests for what, three years, and this muppet needs to have him rested for a test to work on his action mid-series? Fmd. A national embarrassment that is.
WAC. Has to go.

 

[honestbharani]

Always felt McDermott has been your best bowling coach out of recent guys in that position.

 

[Burgey]

A decade ahead of its time that comment.

I must say that searching for Cooley it was amazing how the praise turned to hate, @Burgey with an especially good about face:

19/11/2007


30/12/2010

Yeah, heaven forbid three years of extra evidence might alter the opinion of someone who has to consider evidence for a crust

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah, heaven forbid three years of extra evidence might alter the opinion of someone who has to consider evidence for a crust

You're not allowed to change your mind ever. That is beta af. Travis Head sucks and always will.

 

[Burgey]

You're not allowed to change your mind ever. That is beta af. Travis Head sucks and always will.

Jordan Silk will still score 5,000 test runs

 

[Shady Slim]

tell you what re the langer discussion up above though - head coaches of international teams shouldn't be giving the nitty gritty technical batting advice to the batsmen. maybe if they pick up on something, sure, and obviously in terms of macro-level planning and strategy stuff, but for the technical aspects that's the point of the team's batting coach and his staff, and even more so, individual coaches and consultants the players themselves have in their network, many of whom they've had since they were coming up through the ranks.

the job of an international head coach should be to motivate, manage blokes, and work with the other high level coaches to implement and deliver macro strategies. again, if they can offer useful raisins of technical advice go for it but there are other blokes on the staff who can work on that micro level stuff with a much greater attention to detail and ability to focus on those processes

 

[honestbharani]

Feel the description of how the Indian coaching staff worked gives the template for this, tbh. Refer to all the interviews on Ashwin's YouTube channel but I feel that is how it worked. Bewda (Ravi Shastri) was strategizing at the macro level (remove the off side, get Ashwin in early etc etc.) and the batting, bowling and fielding coaches were working at the more micro level (technical) based on those strategies while the captain and the vice captain were also involved more from the tactical perspective, to support those strategies.

Need not work for everyone and sometimes it could be the captain calling the shots on the strategy when the head coach then takes more of a back seat and concentrates more on man-management, emotional support, tactics and basically preparing the side to do what the captain wants them to do on the field etc.

 

[stephen]

tell you what re the langer discussion up above though - head coaches of international teams shouldn't be giving the nitty gritty technical batting advice to the batsmen. maybe if they pick up on something, sure, and obviously in terms of macro-level planning and strategy stuff, but for the technical aspects that's the point of the team's batting coach and his staff, and even more so, individual coaches and consultants the players themselves have in their network, many of whom they've had since they were coming up through the ranks.

the job of an international head coach should be to motivate, manage blokes, and work with the other high level coaches to implement and deliver macro strategies. again, if they can offer useful raisins of technical advice go for it but there are other blokes on the staff who can work on that micro level stuff with a much greater attention to detail and ability to focus on those processes

Something obviously isn't working in the coaching setup at international level right now. It might even be that Langer is getting too much into batting coaching. Certainly we have had a number of form batsmen who came into the international setup and then failed hard.

Certainly though the coach is responsible for the overall performance of the side and right now the performance of the Australian test side has been well below the standards it should be at given the quality of the players.

Leadership is a force multiplier, and in Australia's case the multiplier is less than one. We're getting less out of the team than the sum of the players.