4th Test at the Gabba, Brisbane, 15 - 19 Jan 2021

[Pratters]

He did say being constantly hit was counterproductive and got them more determined.

 

[sunilz]

at the end of this video last two minutes or so Ashwin talks re the third test how they kept bowling short and if they had bowled full it might have helped, about how hitting batsmen was counterproductive as it strengthened resolve etc. Good stuff.

Nah the pitch was still flat.
If they has bowled full to proper batsmen there is high chance they would have gone for plenty of runs.
Let's not forget India needed only 130 runs in 44 overs when Ashwin +Vihari started partnership. Runs were easily gettable.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Nah the pitch was still flat.
If they has bowled full to proper batsmen there is high chance they would have gone for plenty of runs.
Let's not forget India needed only 130 runs in 44 overs when Ashwin +Vihari started partnership. Runs were easily gettable.

Yes, that's what Hazelwood was saying. Given how Aussies weren't getting movement, it made sense not to pitch it up.

Although I think they got a bit carried away in the bodyline tactics. Probably the earlier injuries caused and the Pujara discomfort might have got them overconfident

 

[Spark]

Yes, that's what Hazelwood was saying. Given how Aussies weren't getting movement, it made sense not to pitch it up.

Although I think they got a bit carried away in the bodyline tactics. Probably the earlier injuries caused and the Pujara discomfort might have got them overconfident

Their short bowling tactics aren't the best in general. The key to short ball tactics is that it makes the normal, full delivery a lot more dangerous because the batsmen might not move their feet as well as they usually would and thus push at the ball with their hands. Mitch Johnson obviously bowled short a lot in 13/14 but a big chunk of his wickets were still "normal" looking bowled/LBW/caught behind dismissals because the batsmen weren't getting forward to him.

An entire over of nothing but short balls is usually a bit of a waste.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Their short bowling tactics aren't the best in general. The key to short ball tactics is that it makes the normal, full delivery a lot more dangerous because the batsmen might not move their feet as well as they usually would and thus push at the ball with their hands. Mitch Johnson obviously bowled short a lot in 13/14 but a big chunk of his wickets were still "normal" looking bowled/LBW/caught behind dismissals because the batsmen weren't getting forward to him.

An entire over of nothing but short balls is usually a bit of a waste.

And I think Indians were pretty much geared mentally to expect the Yorkish length as well. One good thing to come out of IPL is the ability to play the yorker. Although I still think Aus bowlers didn't enough of them.

Another thing was barring Pujara, others relatively played the bouncers aggressively. For example, Gill. He was peppered by Starc but not only he survived, he started thriving on those and took Starc to the cleaners. These kids are no longer afraid of short balls but actually like to play those.

 

[Line and Length]

Compare the length that the pace bowlers delivered when India was dismissed for 36. It was immaculate whereas in subsequent innings they overdid the short ball.
On the final day of the fourth test Cummins was rewarded with 4-55 with his narrow line outside off stump. However, a graphic revealed that not one of his 144 deliveries pitched in line with the stumps. Perhaps greater variety was required.
As for Nathan Lyon, as a spinner he should be a 4th innings specialist. Only 5 bowlers in Test history have taken more than Lyon's fourth innings wickets but his average in those innings (30.4) is nothing startling. What is even more revealing is that fact that in draws and losses, Lyon has only taken 17 wickets at 50.4.

 

[stephen]

Yeah the problem with the Aussie bowling wasn't that they weren't bowling enough Yorkers. The problem was that they weren't bowling enough length balls. There was no sense that they were trying to set up the batsman or even testing them on odd stump. They were just bowling short because they were Indian and weren't supposed to be able to handle the bounce.

Their plans didn't change when plan A failed. They just kept up with plan A. Which is a much a failure of leadership as anything else.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah the problem with the Aussie bowling wasn't that they weren't bowling enough Yorkers. The problem was that they weren't bowling enough length balls. There was no sense that they were trying to set up the batsman or even testing them on odd stump. They were just bowling short because they were Indian and weren't supposed to be able to handle the bounce.

Their plans didn't change when plan A failed. They just kept up with plan A. Which is a much a failure of leadership as anything else.

Pretty sure there must be at least some around the leadership group who just get carried away by hitting the batsman repeatedly. Its very hard to explain the bone headed tactics in any other way, really. Even Vinay Kumar tried more things when he was smashed by Warner. Obviously it was not good enough but at least he was trying different things.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Two successive series wins have showed Indian batsmen have more or less mastered playing on Aussie kind of hard and bouncy but value for shots wickets. A lot of A tours have also helped.

What they haven't mastered is playing on soft wickets when ball is swinging. BCCI would do well to let the top order play County cricket for a while in Eng this summer prior to their tour. There is no harm and a lot of good to come that way. This will give them a lifetime lesson in playing in Eng, SA and NZ kind of pitches.

 

[honestbharani]

Two successive series wins have showed Indian batsmen have more or less mastered playing on Aussie kind of hard and bouncy but value for shots wickets. A lot of A tours have also helped.

What they haven't mastered is playing on soft wickets when ball is swinging. BCCI would do well to let the top order play County cricket for a while in Eng this summer prior to their tour. There is no harm and a lot of good to come that way. This will give them a lifetime lesson in playing in Eng, SA and NZ kind of pitches.

There is no such thing as mastering though. Every tour is different and every squad is different. I won't be getting carried away by anything that happened in Australia, coz that is one sure shot way to lose to a dangerous England at home. It would help if we plan even harder for the SEN country tours but we are not even the #1 side right now. A long way to go before thinking of world dominance etc. I hope the team does not think this way and focusses on the next game as hard as they did for the games in Aus.

 

[trundler]

Compare the length that the pace bowlers delivered when India was dismissed for 36. It was immaculate whereas in subsequent innings they overdid the short ball.
On the final day of the fourth test Cummins was rewarded with 4-55 with his narrow line outside off stump. However, a graphic revealed that not one of his 144 deliveries pitched in line with the stumps. Perhaps greater variety was required.
As for Nathan Lyon, as a spinner he should be a 4th innings specialist. Only 5 bowlers in Test history have taken more than Lyon's fourth innings wickets but his average in those innings (30.4) is nothing startling. What is even more revealing is that fact that in draws and losses, Lyon has only taken 17 wickets at 50.4.

Lyon being hit or miss in the 4th innings is the major thing holding back this attack from realising its full potential. McGrath and Gillespie didn't need to bowl back breaking spells on Day 5 because Warne would bowl you to victory 8/10 times. And matches were over in 3 days but you know what I mean. I know Lyon gets the short end of the stick conditions wise but I remember thinking him not being threatening was a problem in the Ashes too. Going by memory so could be wrong.

 

[the big bambino]

Lyon has his limits but really he's as good a spinner as we can hope for. L&L's post showing a sameness of attack and stephen reiterating his point that our side just can't change tactics is a bigger problem. Maybe 3 of the 4 bowlers have very good skills for certain conditions and can't adjust or don't have the skills to adjust when conditions change.

 

[honestbharani]

 

[honestbharani]

I hate Boria but the guys who are being interviewed are awesome and are giving some fresh insights into how the Indian team works.

 

[honestbharani]

 

[honestbharani]

Lol @ two or three of these fans picking Washington Sundar as the batsman who impressed them most. Who would have thunk that at the start of this series? Just amazing.

Are they actually saying Washington because its the easiest to pronounce, lol?

 

[vcs]

Boria, eh? He'll bore ya

 

[ankitj]

I hate Boria but the guys who are being interviewed are awesome and are giving some fresh insights into how the Indian team works.

Thought there was no way Boria can make a mess of these talks given the context but he spends time asking questions about Rahane vs. Kohli as captain which is some fringe social media shitick

 

[honestbharani]

One interesting tidbit to emerge out of those interviews is that it seems the management never sent any messages to the players post Tea especially after Mayank got out.

Thing to note here is that Washington Sundar and Rishabh Pant have been team mates since their under 19 days (were part of the 2016 squad) and it looks like even the dressing room was not aware they were gonna go for it right at the end when they needed something like 50 in 8 overs. Sundar apparently told Rishabh that he should stay there till the end and Sundar will take the chances. So the dressing room was as surprised/shocked as the rest of us when they started going for it.

Its such a fortunate break that we had these two out at that point for India. With any other partner, either of them may not have felt comfortable talking strategy like that and basically taking such a big decision on their own. But these two have been team mates for so long and knew each other and their games so well, that they could both discuss like this and the debutant basically got to spell out the strategy to win the game.

AS a kid playing for my school at under 17 when I was just 14, I remember a game where we needed to bat for about 30 overs to save the game (the only long format tournament we ever played) - 30 overs a day for 3 days) and we were 5 down when I walked in. We lost two more wickets quickly and we had about 25 overs to go, but the only other guy in my team from my class walked in. And we were both able to play with so much mental freedom coz we have been playing with each other for the last 6 years or so in tennis ball games, friendlies and stuff. But to think something like this happening at THAT level and giving us THAT win, amazing!!!

 

[honestbharani]

Thought there was no way Boria can make a mess of these talks given the context but he spends time asking questions about Rahane vs. Kohli as captain which is some fringe social media ****ick

He obviously read @sunilz posts.

Plot twist when we discover that sunilz was Boria all along, wanting to push the conversation this way so that he can ask such questions.