New Zealand- #1 ranked test side for the first time ever

[thundaboult]

What a time to be alive! Have been following this team's shenanigans since 2003 as a kid. So pleasing to see how far we've come in a relatively short amount of time with limited resources. I remember watching my first ever cricket match, which was NZ vs AUS wc 2003, and the entire neighborhood barking about how dominant australia are and that nobody can touch them, and along runs in a certain Shane Bond and gives everyone something to think about despite us losing in the end. I only ever cared about the BC's and cricket in general because of Bond for the first couple years, but seeing how he was always injured I settled into watching the rest of the squad themselves. Slowly they grew on me and the rest is history.

And now we've got depth! How satisfying that guys like Ferguson, Conway, Young can come in according to injuries and conditions if necessary. We still need a quality wicket taking spinner but with our proven development and talent scouting, its just a matter of time. Back the blackcaps forever.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The rankings reward recent form more. And honestly, being unbeaten at home from 2017 is indeed an impressive achievement. Aus maybe NZ's kryptonite but it does not mean they are not Supermen.

No as I said I definitely agree for the most part. However I would expect NZ to win at home against everyone but Aus and SA, so it's not a huge surprise either.

 

[Athlai]

We would handily beat SA at home right now. Australia would be a good series, but sure keep predicting how it'd go from a 2 match series in 2016.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah I don't quite know what to make of SA atm, but "recently" historically they're one of the few teams you expect should usually win in NZ, and have a decent chance in Australia

 

[Athlai]

Yeah SA tour great, just having a rough year or two imo

 

[Fuller Pilch]

It would be great for the Proteas to play a Southern African Kiwi XI on their next tour. Would be a pretty decent side.

 

[nzfan]

We would wipe the floor of that NZ team 9 times out of 10 imo.

Hadlee is our greatest ever player. Crowe is at the very least our second best ever batsman.

But after that the quality just doesn't match up. Our current attack is effectively the rest of the NZ ATG attack, our current batting line up sans an opener is filling out our ATG best batting lineup. Watling is our greatest ever keeper. Its just a far more complete lineup.

They're a good team our 80s squad and I'd rate them to beat out early 2000s team or our early 2010s team but NZ cricket right now is at its high water mark.

I wasn't talking about man to man comparison. Obviously man to man this team is the best and the depth is unbelievable. There are roughly 4-6 players in the fringe that are of international quality.

I was merely taking about the results produced by the mid 80s team in comparison to this one. If this team can go on to win overseas as much as that team then did I'd say this is the best team ever in terms of results produced.

 

[nzfan]

hmm maybe. wright, jones, jf reid and smiths keeping were pretty ****in good as well. the major difference is the bowling because chatfield and cairns don't measure up to staples of the nz all time second xi (no one should select the modern guys ahead of generational talents like bond and cowie).

the combined team;

wright
jones (he's just a better player than either modern opener, can't leave him out)
williamson
crowe
taylor
jf reid/coney/latham/cdg (depends whether you want the extra batsman or an allrounder - im flexible for this spot)
watling
hadlee
bracewell
southee/boult
wagner

Bruce Edgar wasn't too bad either. For some reason Bruce is never really talked about. He made crucial contributions.

 

[Athlai]

I wasn't talking about man to man comparison. Obviously man to man this team is the best and the depth is unbelievable. There are roughly 4-6 players in the fringe that are of international quality.

I was merely taking about the results produced by the mid 80s team in comparison to this one. If this team can go on to win overseas as much as that team then did I'd say this is the best team ever in terms of results produced.

Can't control the quality of the opposition though. It's a more competitive era. Sure the WI ATG team probably doesn't have a contemporary equal but I'd say there are plenty of teams as good as or better than Pakistan were in that era.

 

[Bahnz]

We would wipe the floor of that NZ team 9 times out of 10 imo.

Hadlee is our greatest ever player. Crowe is at the very least our second best ever batsman.

But after that the quality just doesn't match up. Our current attack is effectively the rest of the NZ ATG attack, our current batting line up sans an opener is filling out our ATG best batting lineup. Watling is our greatest ever keeper. Its just a far more complete lineup.

They're a good team our 80s squad and I'd rate them to beat out early 2000s team or our early 2010s team but NZ cricket right now is at its high water mark.

Disagree with this. Yes the current team has a smoother distribution of quality, but cricket isn't really a team game in the traditional sense. Individuals loom much larger over results than in most sports. The overall quality of the bowling attack matters less when Hadlee is bowling a third of the overs. And KW aside, this batting lineup doesn't have a good track record against world class pace. The back-up batters (Wright, Jones, Reid, Coney etc.) are on a similar level to the current side. Bracewell a better spin bowler than anyone in the current team (though on the sorts of pitches we've played on in recent seasons that might not matter). Jamieson potentially tips things in the current teams favour, but it's very early for him. Would probably favour the current lot no more than 6-4.

 

[nzfan]

Can't control the quality of the opposition though. It's a more competitive era. Sure the WI ATG team probably doesn't have a contemporary equal but I'd say there are plenty of teams as good as or better than Pakistan were in that era.

WI were champions. England were a side to beat. India then at home and overseas were real good. Pakistan were a very good unit. Sri Lanka were just about arriving. Zimbabwe were quite good.

Aussies may not have been great with many greats retiring at the same time.

Less teams then meant reasonable quality of across globe. There were a lots of great players from that era in each of the teams. I don't think there were many push overs.

Every side had at least 2 good pacers and 1 good spinner. Far cry from the current era. In fact I believe if you picked the best XI from this era and put them against the best from the 80s the current era stand absolutely no chance.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Can't control the quality of the opposition though. It's a more competitive era. Sure the WI ATG team probably doesn't have a contemporary equal but I'd say there are plenty of teams as good as or better than Pakistan were in that era.

Plenty of teams is pushing it. They had the greatest bowling all rounder of all time, perhaps the best ever left armer, and a quality leg spinner. And even after Zaheer Abbas retired (about when Wasim debuted), they still had Miandad supporting a strong batting lineup. That Pakistan side of the 80s might be world no 1 now if at full strength. Their big issue was players arguing with each other and the board and making themselves unavailable.

 

[nzfan]

Great players from the 80s off the head

Batters

Sunil Gavaskar, Gordon Greenidge, Desmond Haynes, Martin Crowe, Javed Miandad, Allan Border, Viv Richards, Gower, Gooch, Ritchie Richardson, David Boon, Vengsarkar, Salim Malik, Zaheer Abbas, Azharuddin, Dean Jones

All rounders

Botham, Kapil Dev, Hadlee, Wasim Akram,

Fast bowlers

Holding, Garner, Malcolm Marshall, McDermott, Walsh, Ambrose

Spinners

Qadir

Wicket Keeper

Dujon, Smith, Healy

I don't think they were that bad.... maybe there were no great spinners to speak of but fast bowling was stacked and so was batting. All rounders from that era is probably best ever and no other era can come close.

 

[nzfan]

Right now middle order is quite sharp with Kane, Kohli, Steve Smith, ABD, Root, Azam but you will find it really hard to even name two reasonably good openers from across the globe. There are some that are decent but no where close to the ones from the 80s I think.

Can you compare Ben Stokes, Holder, CDG, Jadeja, Shakib to the likes of the all rounders from the 80s? Barring Stokes I don't think rest of them have a slightest chance.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Combined 80s/present side:

Team A

Haynes
Greenidge
Viv
Smith
Miandad
Watling (wk)
Imran Khan (c)
Hadlee
Ashwin
Cummins
Marshall

Team B
Warner
Gooch
Williamson
Kohli
Border (c)
De Kock (wk)
Botham
Jadeja
Akram
Holding
Garner

More 80s players

 

[Athlai]

I generally view sports as improving in skill over time and don't think cricket is any exception. Though I do view the 80s being a high point and being of higher quality than the 90s. I reckon contemporary bowlers get massively overrated in these sorts of comparisons. When rating who is an ATG or not its only fair and reasonable to compare the player to the era they played in but when outright comparing who wins across eras I'm far more inclined to the era of true sporting professionalism.

Mentally this exercise to me is always played today with the #bigbats #kookaburra and #flatpitches. So it's all loaded with advantages to the contemporary. When I say that most teams now would be comfortably second in that era it's a testament to the strength of both eras in how great a WI team it was and how complete and competitive teams are now.

Also everyone was a ****ing cheat then

 

[stephen]

I generally view sports as improving in skill over time and don't think cricket is any exception. Though I do view the 80s being a high point and being of higher quality than the 90s. I reckon contemporary bowlers get massively overrated in these sorts of comparisons. When rating who is an ATG or not its only fair and reasonable to compare the player to the era they played in but when outright comparing who wins across eras I'm far more inclined to the era of true sporting professionalism.

Mentally this exercise to me is always played today with the #bigbats #kookaburra and #flatpitches. So it's all loaded with advantages to the contemporary. When I say that most teams now would be comfortably second in that era it's a testament to the strength of both eras in how great a WI team it was and how complete and competitive teams are now.

Also everyone was a ****ing cheat then

You view the 80s as being higher skilled than the 90s? I'm not sure I can agree with that. There was a greater concentration of talent in the 80s than the 90s but the 90s were much closer to the modern era where each side had a few great players and some ordinary ones.

 

[Athlai]

You view the 80s as being higher skilled than the 90s? I'm not sure I can agree with that. There was a greater concentration of talent in the 80s than the 90s but the 90s were much closer to the modern era where each side had a few great players and some ordinary ones.

I think most of the best 90s players blossomed in the early 2000s, which then transformed into rise of that Australian team that was unbeatable.

 

[honestbharani]

Can you compare Ben Stokes, Holder, CDG, Jadeja, Shakib to the likes of the all rounders from the 80s? Barring Stokes I don't think rest of them have a slightest chance.

Severely under rating Shakib and Jaddu here, IMO.

 

[grecian]

Gawd the avatars of averageness being number 1, bad times. At least they've never won a World Cup.