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Sack Langer

cnerd123

cnerd123

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Found the thread, analysis by none other than Neil Pickup

Class is Permanent, Form is... an Illusion?

Have just posted this in the "Phil Mustard" thread, and I felt it deserved a thread of its own where non-Englishmen would read it. I'd be interested in other correlations/relationships/predictors that could be tested out. There's been some quite interesting research in baseball (which Steven...
www.cricketweb.net

Graphs don't load anymore tho
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Can’t recall seeing him in mid December tbh. Bloke is as fair weather as a parasol.
 
the big bambino

the big bambino

International Captain
cnerd123 said:
Found the thread, analysis by none other than Neil Pickup

Class is Permanent, Form is... an Illusion?

Have just posted this in the "Phil Mustard" thread, and I felt it deserved a thread of its own where non-Englishmen would read it. I'd be interested in other correlations/relationships/predictors that could be tested out. There's been some quite interesting research in baseball (which Steven...
www.cricketweb.net

Graphs don't load anymore tho
Click to expand...
Interesting though I wonder what measure you'd use if not form? Not for Smith obvs who has class but players like Burns who we all knew could be comfortably dropped before the first test on his shield form alone. The only counter method advanced was loyalty by Gilly and likely guided Langer. Of the two I think you'd have to favour lead up form.
 
cnerd123

cnerd123

likes this
the big bambino said:
Interesting though I wonder what measure you'd use if not form? Not for Smith obvs who has class but players like Burns who we all knew could be comfortably dropped before the first test on his shield form alone. The only counter method advanced was loyalty by Gilly and likely guided Langer. Of the two I think you'd have to favour lead up form.
Click to expand...
I think the eye test is pretty good. This data only refutes analysis by scoreboard. A batter could notch up a run of single figure scores all while middling every ball he gets. You could still classify them as 'in form' even if the results don't show it.

However almost all batsmen look most uncomfortable early in their innings, particularly against high quality bowling in a high pressure environment. In that case you have to weigh their on-field performances against things like how they are batting in the nets, what they and their coaches say about their mental state, and their performances in matches outside of the national team in order to evaluate whether or not they're in form. Sometimes there just isn't enough info to really tell.
 
D

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
I think that thread is probably less about the concept of form itself and more about the bluntness of the instrument that gets used to measure form (i.e. consecutive innings results). The latter is pretty much meaningless for the reasons cnerd outlines - batting is inherently high variance given the sheer number of moving parts factoring into each innings.

It's also asymmetrical when judged on the scorebooks - it's pretty safe to assume that a bloke peeling off 102, 21, 34, 56, 9, 174* is probably in decent touch, while a guy who's made 7, 23, 41, 17, 1, 12 could either be in rubbish form or has copped a couple of good ones early / caught low scoring decks / been sawn off / got out slogging declaration runs despite looking pretty solid.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Good use of 15 mins right there. I fully agree. The concept of form is very much real, as broad and subjective as it is and can be. At the same time, cricket being a game of complete variables means you really cannot with any certainty judge form or the lack of it just based on scorecard stats.
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
They tell you that when you are in form, half chances seem to go in your way. What they don't tell you is that when you are inform, you do whatever you do with a clear mind and and fully committed which could be the split second difference of surviving instead of getting out.
 
Gob

Gob

International Coach
Burgey said:
Lol you’re an idiot of the highest order.
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I've said this before, worst thing about Australia losing a game is that it encourages bunch of absolute ass clowns to emerge from nowhere and start posting filth. Now I'm all for posting filth, I do a lot of that myself but atleast be ****ing original and not as dead set boring like feline entry or who the **** that is
 
Starfighter

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'd just like to chime in and say that I approve of this thread. Have pointed out the Langer-collapses association quite a few times before.
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well we're at the Gabba and if India could catch we'd be 4 for less than 100, with Warner, Smith and Labuschagne all back in the shed. India don't have any of these bowlers either: Bumrah, Ashwin, Jadeja, Yadav, Ishant or Bhuvi.

It's pretty inexcusable at this point. Australia are underperforming dramatically given the talent at its disposal and is making a third string Indian bowling attack look like world beaters.

When does the coaching and leadership start getting seriously questioned.

We have two of the top 5 batsmen in the world, the best pace bowler and an excellent attack and yet we are consistently collapsing our failing to bowl sides out. I can't remember the least time Australia crossed 500 without a Warner triple hundred.
 
Senile Sentry

Senile Sentry

International Debutant
stephen said:
Well we're at the Gabba and if India could catch we'd be 4 for less than 100, with Warner, Smith and Labuschagne all back in the shed.

It's pretty inexcusable at this point. Australia are underperforming dramatically given the talent at its disposal and is making a third string Indian bowling attack look like world beaters.

When does the coaching and leadership start getting seriously questioned.

We have two of the top 5 batsmen in the world, the best pace bowler and an excellent attack and yet we are consistently collapsing our failing to bowl sides out. I can't remember the least time Australia crossed 500 without a Warner triple hundred.
Click to expand...
Too much respect for India, not even hard-core Indian fans think this lineup is capable of doing what we have done till now.
 
Starfighter

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Senile Sentry said:
Too much respect for India, not even hard-core Indian fans think this lineup is capable of doing what we have done till now.
Click to expand...
I think it's a fashion on here for the Indian fans to underrate their players and chances. You'd think this lineup was Zimbabwe from some of the comments this morning.
 
morgieb

morgieb

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I hadn't really had much to complain about Langer's actual coaching before this series but tactically something has been really off from Australia here.

Australia suffered one injury and it's basically blown up their batting lineup. India can basically put up a 4th XI attack and still look competitive. Warner going out early didn't help much but it's looked like a batting lineup petrified. It's like Australian coaches since we stopped being a dominant team can't understand that there's no such thing as a one sized fits all approach.
 
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