2nd Test at the MCG, Melbourne, 26 Dec - 30 Dec 2020

[Shri]

Maybe this is the exact line of thinking that leads to pushing forward on your defensive prods looking for singles and ending up playing away from your body and edging to slip like Head has.

This **** isn't as simple as you're making out. Warner returning will absolutely be a huge help however.

bumrah will own him and it won't be pretty

 

[Spark]

Maybe this is the exact line of thinking that leads to pushing forward on your defensive prods looking for singles and ending up playing away from your body and edging to slip like Head has.

This **** isn't as simple as you're making out. Warner returning will absolutely be a huge help however.

That's not really what Head has done though. Both of his dismissals were pretty forceful shots iirc, not defensive prods.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That's not really what Head has done though. Both of his dismissals were pretty forceful shots iirc, not defensive prods.

I don't think he was looking for boundaries on either of them. Regardless you're ignoring my point and choosing to focus on just the example. The idea that slow batting can't work is nonsense.

 

[stephen]

Maybe this is the exact line of thinking that leads to pushing forward on your defensive prods looking for singles and ending up playing away from your body and edging to slip like Head has.

This **** isn't as simple as you're making out. Warner returning will absolutely be a huge help however.

Of course it's not simple, otherwise it wouldn't be test match cricket.

But the pitch had no demons in it after day one. I refuse to believe that Siraj is Malcolm Marshall incarnate and Jadeja bowls flat and without turn. There's no way they couldn't milk him for more runs.

Australia absolutely did not do anything to try and control the tempo of play. Even delaying Jadeja for a few more seconds each delivery would help. He was allowed to get through his overs way too quickly, which is honestly a big part of why his economy is so good. They need to spend a bit more time gardening or counting fielders and not facing up to him. Annoy him a bit and don't let him settle into a rhythm.

It's cricket 101 really and the Australians were clueless.

 

[cnerd123]

Maybe they lasted 176 overs because they batted slowly

they would probably get bowled out quicker if they attempted anything more aggressive, but that's entirely the problem. There are way to accumulate runs relatively safely, but these involve being aware of your own weaknesses and putting in the hard work to find ways to score around them. Have a gameplan before you go out to bat. They might still fail, but atleast they'll fail showing #intent, and there is the potential upside that they can learn from those failures and possibly get better.

Stephen's point is that the lack of any such evolution in the techniques and gameplans of the Aussie batsmen over the last few years is frustrating. He feels under Langer they have adopted a 'safety first' approach, which means that with each failure they are digging themselves deeper and deeper in the hole without a way out of it.

Even Pujara, the master of the blockathon, has scoring opportunities for when he is set. Yes he's bad at quick singles, but he's ****ing good at hitting boundaries when set. The Aussie batsmen don't seem to have scoring opportunities to turn too once they're set. They just keep digging the hole.

So it's true that the Indian bowling has been excellent to peg them back, but perhaps the Aussies would have fared better if they had come into this series prepared to put some pressure back on, instead of being determined to just grind their way through the series.

 

[harsh.ag]

@stephen You will find peace when you accept Jadeja is good.

 

[OverratedSanity]

@Spark is head's dismissal here @ 3:25 exactly what I talked about? He's not hitting that for four even if it hits the middle of the bat. He's clearly trying to force a one/two there.

 

[Spark]

I don't think he was looking for boundaries on either of them. Regardless you're ignoring my point and choosing to focus on just the example. The idea that slow batting can't work is nonsense.

Of course slow batting can work. It's just not working for this team. Slow batting should ideally come with an acceleration as the batsman gets more set and they identify the viable run-scoring zones against a particular attack; aside from the Labuschagne/Head partnership that hasn't happened at all.

But this really stands out with regards to how they've played Ashwin and Jadeja to. Every finger spinner who has come to Australia in my lifetime has been deliberately attacked except for this series, it's been very strange. And it was ****ing aggravating as hell to see cut shot after cut shot panned straight to the fielders on Day 1.

 

[Spark]

@Spark is head's dismissal here @ 3:25 exactly what I talked about? He's not hitting that for four even if it hits the middle of the bat. He's clearly trying to force a one/two there.

Not exactly a forward defensive prod though! It's a pretty forceful shot.

 

[stephen]

I don't think he was looking for boundaries on either of them. Regardless you're ignoring my point and choosing to focus on just the example. The idea that slow batting can't work is nonsense.

Slow batting can work, but not if everyone in the side is doing it.

Looking over recent results, the last wins by Australia against India have had average run rates of:
3.04 (Adelaide 2020)
2.81 (Perth 2018)
2.99 (Pune 2017)
4.78 (Brisbane 2014)
4.26 (Adelaide 2014)

The last five losses have had run rates of:
2.24 (Melbourne 2020)
2.63 (Melbourne 2018)
2.40 (Adelaide 2018)
3.07 (Dharmasala 2017)
2.45 (Bengalaru 2017)

There is a very strong correlation between run rate and victory, particularly in Australia.

 

[stephen]

@Spark is head's dismissal here @ 3:25 exactly what I talked about? He's not hitting that for four even if it hits the middle of the bat. He's clearly trying to force a one/two there.

He's not really trying to do anything with that shot. The shot before he leaned into it and put his weight behind it. That shot was a nothing shot that was basically not committed enough to be scoring runs and not defensive enough to block. It was the shot of a man who is not clear of mind.

 

[OverratedSanity]

They should definitely attack Ashwin and Jadeja more true. Letting finger spinners dominate you in Australia is embarrassing. Even though there's been an uncharacteristic amount of purchase for the spinners.

 

[Daemon]

Smith has already mentioned he hasn't attacked Ashwin and all but said he will be doing so going forward.

‘Probably never let any spinner dictate terms like this’: Steve Smith on battle with R Ashwin

Smith has been dismissed by Ashwin twice in the first two matches of the four-match series for the Border Gavaskar Trophy.

scroll.in

 

[Senile Sentry]

No there's definitely a direction going on from the coaching staff. Look at the way that Starc batted today. That was so antithetical to the way he normally bats that it's clear grinding it out is now the goal. Langer has the batters so scared to make a mistake that they're forgetting how to construct an innings. At least that's how it appears. The batsmen are burning all of their concentration on survival that they're focussing none of it on scoring.

Problem is that grinding it out isn't working because they're letting the bowlers settle into their rhythm. They're playing subcontinental attritional cricket without realising it. There needs to be a focus on turning over the strike and turning some good balls into ones and punishing the bad balls. The bad balls aren't going to come if the batsmen never make any attempt to make something happen.

Now I'm not talking about walking down the pitch and smacking bowlers over their heads ala Matthew Hayden. I'm talking about figuring a way to safely put the ball into the gap for the occasional single. Like what the Indian batters did on day 2.

India debuted a fast bowler and are playing against finger spinners on the MCG. For how well Siraj bowled (and he did bowl well), there's no way that the glory days side would allow a newbie dictate terms like that. They'd pounce on anything and everything and hit him off his lines and lengths.

There's that story floating around of how Hayden said to Langer in one of his earlier tests that if this was the shield he'd just walk down the pitch and smack the bowler over their heads, based on the lengths they were bowling. Langer said "do it" and that was when Hayden the aggressive test opener was born. Where's the "do it" Langer now? He's focussed so much on arresting the collapses that he's forgotten to give batsmen the freedom to play their own games.

And full credit to him, he has managed to arrest the collapses. Now instead of happening in 30 balls, they happen in 150 balls. They're still collapses, they're just not as dramatic. 3-38 (14.3 overs), 7-71 (58 overs) were the two collapses in the first innings and 6-99 (47.4 overs) and 4-44 (21 overs) were the two collapses in the second innings. They're still collapses, they're still unacceptable, but now they're drawn out over two thirds of a day of cricket instead of one and a half hours.

That first innings 7-71 over 58 overs is excruciating. Not even 1.5 runs per over which means that despite batting nearly 60 overs, the last seven wickets didn't mean much. Similarly the 6-99 (47.4 overs) was half a day of cricket for the loss of over half the team and for so few runs that one Indian batsman's innings made up for it.

It has to stop. The batsmen are batting scared and there needs to be some serious soul searching before the next test. Warner is not magically going to fix all of the problems (though it will help) and Burns and Smith being out of form isn't the cause of all the problems. Even with Smith and Burns not scoring anything, Wade, Labuschagne, Head and Green are batting for long periods without really punishing the bowlers for it. We know that Wade, Head and Green are in sublime first class form and Labuschagne is a class batsman, but they get into the middle and are throwing their wickets away after grinding out a score over 100+ balls that most batsmen would consider a "start". It's not good enough.

Fair point.
But still a lot of conjectures. Plus Indian bowlers aren't the trundlers who used to turn up in old days. Walking down the pitch and hitting is no longer an option against likes of Bumrah who can smack a couple on the helmet and mentally Australians are scarred. Possibly after the loss two years back I guess.

Even a lot of Indian fans are surprised by Aussies negative scoring. But I think its got to do with the control Indian bowlers have exerted. Every time they have tried to hit out a wicket seems to fall. Head, Wade, Green, all got out trying to accelerate the scoring.

Having Warner should inject a bit of positivity. All it takes is one positive innings from a player to shook things up. India too were too defensive in the Adelaide rest and resulted in the 36. But here, Gill injected the much needed positivity not to mention the brief but effective encore from Pant. This rubbed off on Rahane as well.

So I am looking forward to Warner coming in next match just to shake things a bit up. And I would like to see KL Rahul as well

 

[Senile Sentry]

Smith has already mentioned he hasn't attacked Ashwin and all but said he will be doing so going forward.

‘Probably never let any spinner dictate terms like this’: Steve Smith on battle with R Ashwin

Smith has been dismissed by Ashwin twice in the first two matches of the four-match series for the Border Gavaskar Trophy.

scroll.in

I loved the way Gill attacked Lyon first ball in the last test. Came down and drove him for a brace and then a boundary in the very first over and that had Lyon staring at Gill at completion of the over. Lyon wasn't anywhere threatening after that start and was completely out bowled by Ashwin.

Point is Indians will have prepared well for Ashwin getting attacked and plan accordingly. Ashwin is a master as well and will be prepared for this

 

[stephen]

One of the main reasons India won in 2018 is down to Pujara's batting.

His scores and strike rates in those tests:

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

71@35
123@50
4@36
24@23
0@0
106@33
193@52

He was still scoring at a strike rate of 35 or more over the course of his innings and doing so absolutely suited his style of batting. But up the other end he had Rahul, Vijay, Kohli, Rahane, Sharma and Pant all scoring at rates of 40-60 and chipping in with valuable contributions. So despite Pujara batting slowly, the scoreboard ticked over and even when it didn't, the Australian 4 man bowling attack tired itself out.

These tests India are bringing 5 bowlers, including two spinners. Batting slowly isn't going to tire them out. And if every batsman is doing it then it keeps India in the game, even if they are bowling all day (which they're not, I might add).

This go slow isn't working at all. It's letting the Indian side rotate their bowlers as they see fit, it's hindering scoring opportunities and it's letting India get the second new ball while Australia only have 150 runs on the board, which is giving Bumrah opportunities to bowl with the new ball to the tail with no runs in the bank.

 

[honestbharani]

Sanju Manju made his one good point for a test match that maybe relevant to the discussion going on here. It takes a very brave man to go out and be dismissed playing an expansive stroke when they are not in good form and their batting unit, as a whole, is struggling. He made it in the context of the 36 a.o but I think it applies equally for Australia.

 

[stephen]

I loved the way Gill attacked Lyon first ball in the last test. Came down and drove him for a brace and then a boundary in the very first over and that had Lyon staring at Gill at completion of the over. Lyon wasn't anywhere threatening after that start and was completely out bowled by Ashwin.

Point is Indians will have prepared well for Ashwin getting attacked and plan accordingly. Ashwin is a master as well and will be prepared for this

The first paragraph I thoroughly agree with. The second I don't. Finger spinners, even Lyon, should go for lots of runs in Australia.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Of course it's not simple, otherwise it wouldn't be test match cricket.

But the pitch had no demons in it after day one. I refuse to believe that Siraj is Malcolm Marshall incarnate and Jadeja bowls flat and without turn. There's no way they couldn't milk him for more runs.

Australia absolutely did not do anything to try and control the tempo of play. Even delaying Jadeja for a few more seconds each delivery would help. He was allowed to get through his overs way too quickly, which is honestly a big part of why his economy is so good. They need to spend a bit more time gardening or counting fielders and not facing up to him. Annoy him a bit and don't let him settle into a rhythm.

It's cricket 101 really and the Australians were clueless.

But the difference is that Siraj and zjadeja have bowled not as individual bowlers but as part of an overall plan. That's what has made the difference.

Siraj getting Green twice was my favorite moment in the test match. He did the classical outswing, outswing, outswing and then inswing in first innings. In the second
realising the fact that he had to also do a bit of Umesh and play attritional cricket he bowled good line and length. Out of nowhere he conjured up a very good short ball which almost increased in pace after pitching. Green was so late playing it and was caught at midwicket. All this showed deployment of discipline and skill from Siraj.

I know its a bitter pill for some Aussie fans to see visiting bowlers outplay theirs but with this Indian team that has been the truth.

 

[stephen]

Fair point.
But still a lot of conjectures. Plus Indian bowlers aren't the trundlers who used to turn up in old days. Walking down the pitch and hitting is no longer an option against likes of Bumrah who can smack a couple on the helmet and mentally Australians are scarred. Possibly after the loss two years back I guess.

Even a lot of Indian fans are surprised by Aussies negative scoring. But I think its got to do with the control Indian bowlers have exerted. Every time they have tried to hit out a wicket seems to fall. Head, Wade, Green, all got out trying to accelerate the scoring.

Having Warner should inject a bit of positivity. All it takes is one positive innings from a player to shook things up. India too were too defensive in the Adelaide rest and resulted in the 36. But here, Gill injected the much needed positivity not to mention the brief but effective encore from Pant. This rubbed off on Rahane as well.

So I am looking forward to Warner coming in next match just to shake things a bit up. And I would like to see KL Rahul as well

I'm not talking about trying to replicate 2014. The Indian bowling is far better than that (despite the spinners being the same and Umesh still being part of the side).

I'm talking about turning 2.2 rpo into 3 rpo. Finding an extra single every four out of five overs. Getting some rhythm to the batting. Attacking and disrupting the spinners.

A case in point is that for much of the day yesterday, India had their field settings mostly in the ring. There were few boundary riders. Yet literally nobody tried to chip one over cover at any point to spread the field. The Australian batsmen simply let the Indian bowlers bowl to their plans.