cnerd123
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never claimed otherwise tbf
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*Official* Pakistan in New Zealand 2020/21
- Thread starter ParwazHaiJunoon
- Start date
James
Cricket Web Owner
Henry's time has come and gone in Tests IMO. What makes us go back to him so much?
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
Fair enough, just saying don't replace Wagner with Darrell Mitchell
Flem274*
123/5
mitchell is replacing santner, ajaz replaces wagner.
Binkley
U19 Captain
It will be pretty hard to fill Wagner’s blood-soaked boots with Ferguson also out. Henry will probably be the selector’s pick, and he has performed pretty well in first-class cricket so he does have that on his side. But he hasn’t looked like a test bowler for a while with those shorter lengths that seem to be his go-to now. Duffy is probably number 2, and although I really want to see him play for NZ it is too soon for Sears to come in.
James
Cricket Web Owner
If anyone can come through it's Wagner:
"I do take a lot of pride in something like that," Wagner said about bowling through the pain. "But it comes down to the team. There's still a way of contributing for them. I wouldn't be wanting to sit on the side with my foot up and watching the boys doing the hard work out there, and I can't be there to help out. I feel I'll be left out, I have a bit of FOMO. Injuries happen and it's unlucky, but I can still walk, I can still do things, I can run. It's not going to stop me. It's sore and it's uncomfortable but it's just one of those things you have to deal with.
"Test matches don't come easy. Playing for your country is never anything you can take for granted. I know how bloody hard I had to work to get to where I am now and I'm sure as hell not going to sit on the side and watch other people do it. I want to be part of it and playing my part. Unless they carry me off on a stretcher, I'm going to try and do everything I can, I guess."
"I do take a lot of pride in something like that," Wagner said about bowling through the pain. "But it comes down to the team. There's still a way of contributing for them. I wouldn't be wanting to sit on the side with my foot up and watching the boys doing the hard work out there, and I can't be there to help out. I feel I'll be left out, I have a bit of FOMO. Injuries happen and it's unlucky, but I can still walk, I can still do things, I can run. It's not going to stop me. It's sore and it's uncomfortable but it's just one of those things you have to deal with.
"Test matches don't come easy. Playing for your country is never anything you can take for granted. I know how bloody hard I had to work to get to where I am now and I'm sure as hell not going to sit on the side and watch other people do it. I want to be part of it and playing my part. Unless they carry me off on a stretcher, I'm going to try and do everything I can, I guess."
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
It would never happen but Nathan Smith (much better bowler than D Mitchell) for Santner and Ajaz for Wagner.
Moss
International Captain
Kuggeleijn maybe, given the longer format seems to suit him better? Of course it could end up driving people away from watching the game.
Henry looked innocuous in his last couple of test outings, not opposed to him but only in the capacity of a new ball bowler. Duffy being the form bowler makes sense, would definitely prefer him over someone like Bracewell.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
He performed superbly for NZ A v West Indies A (scored 70 odd and took a few wickets).
Flem274*
123/5
this is a very big three thing to say so happy to be proven wrong but im not sure that particular west indies A side were neccessarily as challenging as say, an auckland side featuring ferguson, jamieson, mcewan and somerville or even a less aesthetically pleasing but ruthless henry, williams, sheat and nutall. central, northern and wellington of course have plenty of bowlers in NZ A or the full side.
Jezroy
State Captain
Haven’t posted for a while. Life.
And not very on topic this thought, but how do we always seem to perform so poorly in Australia? Looking at the 3 series in the last year (IND in NZ and AUS, and NZ in AUS), NZ just seem to have some sort of inferiority complex, IND seem to not GAF about playing in NZ but rise to the challenge of playing in AUS much better than NZ do, and AUS just seem to have the wood on NZ mentally.
We do seem to be generally unlucky with timing regarding form and fitness as well. But even when AUS come to NZ (rarely), there’s always that feeling that it’ll be close but then... nah.
And not very on topic this thought, but how do we always seem to perform so poorly in Australia? Looking at the 3 series in the last year (IND in NZ and AUS, and NZ in AUS), NZ just seem to have some sort of inferiority complex, IND seem to not GAF about playing in NZ but rise to the challenge of playing in AUS much better than NZ do, and AUS just seem to have the wood on NZ mentally.
We do seem to be generally unlucky with timing regarding form and fitness as well. But even when AUS come to NZ (rarely), there’s always that feeling that it’ll be close but then... nah.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
There's definitely a psychological component to it, but a big part I think is that NZ are a poor fit for Australian conditions. In terms of bowling, low-130's swing bowlers have always suffered horribly in Australia, unless they're an ATG like Hadlee or the Australians decide to get generous and roll-out a green top. The batsmen struggle with bounce and turn because they don't see much of them at home. Basically the same reason why England have only won 3 and lost 14 of their last 20 tests in Australia (and the three they won were when they had a class spinner and a couple of giant quicks in Tremlett and Finn). India are just a much better horse for the Australian course now that they have quality pace bowlers.
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hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
It is very frustrating.
Australia's strengths perfectly align with our weaknesses in a way that no other team does.
e.g. Tom Latham could be considered a world class opener, except against quick seamers on bouncy, fast tracks.
Boult and Southee are world class in any conditions except where there's no movement and the ball comes onto the bat nicely. I mean, they're better now than they were but still.
India in contrast have more adaptive batsmen who are able to thrive on quick pitches - Rahane, Kohli - Gill looks like he might be similar. Our last batsman who really relished the ball coming onto the bat quick like that was McCullum.
Flem274*
123/5
it's rock paper scissors atm. australia cream nz who cream india away who cream australia who cream nz...
it's largely psychological imo. even tho india are strong faves against nz in india, you can see how nz could win because they've won series/tests in the uae and sri lanka. india can outclass a good team at home and that's understandable.
our batsmen just melted last time in aus. we know they're good players. look how the reserve wicketkeeper and debutant came in with no demons and played like normal batsmen rather than frightened chooks. even the boss at perth came out charging under lights then froze the next day. they're so weird in australia, honestly.
bowling wise that was southee's series to win in tandem with wagner and 2012-2014 southee would have had no excuses. as it was, he bowled well with the pink ball but didn't use his height at all on boxing day, sent it down slower than lord colin and was made an example of for the 3rd test. boult is too skiddy to bowl 135-140kph over there. he needed an extra 5 clicks. the less said about santner, the better.
wagner and lord colin both bowled above and beyond.
ferguson should have debuted earlier and we missed the jamieson bus by 12 months. jamieson/ferguson/wagner is the best specialist nz attack for those conditions if southee isn't utilising his height and zip. who knows what the batsmen will do next time but the current gen bowlers will all be retired then so we're looking at jamieson and then a few from the likes of sears, duffy and fisher. we'll probs pick kuggs to bowl sharp long hops tho.
it's largely psychological imo. even tho india are strong faves against nz in india, you can see how nz could win because they've won series/tests in the uae and sri lanka. india can outclass a good team at home and that's understandable.
our batsmen just melted last time in aus. we know they're good players. look how the reserve wicketkeeper and debutant came in with no demons and played like normal batsmen rather than frightened chooks. even the boss at perth came out charging under lights then froze the next day. they're so weird in australia, honestly.
bowling wise that was southee's series to win in tandem with wagner and 2012-2014 southee would have had no excuses. as it was, he bowled well with the pink ball but didn't use his height at all on boxing day, sent it down slower than lord colin and was made an example of for the 3rd test. boult is too skiddy to bowl 135-140kph over there. he needed an extra 5 clicks. the less said about santner, the better.
wagner and lord colin both bowled above and beyond.
ferguson should have debuted earlier and we missed the jamieson bus by 12 months. jamieson/ferguson/wagner is the best specialist nz attack for those conditions if southee isn't utilising his height and zip. who knows what the batsmen will do next time but the current gen bowlers will all be retired then so we're looking at jamieson and then a few from the likes of sears, duffy and fisher. we'll probs pick kuggs to bowl sharp long hops tho.
thierry henry
International Coach
My distinct recollection of the MCG test in particular last year was that Pattinson and Cummins seemed to make every ball seam whereas we somehow couldn’t? Like somehow the ball doesn’t work on Aussie pitches unless it’s 140+