1st Test, Aus vs India, Adelaide oval 17th-21st December

[Flem274*]

cummins is at worst the second best australian pace bowler i have ever seen in the trio of mcgrath-cummins-harris

 

[Slifer]

I said last summer that it remains to be seen whether Labuschagne is anywhere near as good as his stats suggest. He's had one good year of cricket and people think he's the second coming of Smith. I'm a bit more wary about him than most. I still think he's going to end his career with a 45ish average.



Yeah absolutely. This attack had better second and third pace bowlers (at least in their current incarnations). Lee was always a pressure valve for opponents. With these three there's nowhere to run. It's a great pace attack the likes of which we haven't seen since the 80s Windies (who were better).

Lyon Is good but isn't in the same class as Warne was. Warne made the 00s attack overall better than the modern one but Lyon isn't exactly a weakness.

I'd say recent RSA pace attacks were right up there as well: Steyn, Philander and Morkel. Mix in Rabada somewhere in there as well.

 

[Starfighter]

I'm pretty sure almost all of them not only played again but had pretty extensive careers after that

Well, it was the end of the line for HH Kanitkar, Devang Gandhi, Vijay Bhardwaj and MSK Prasad, two of whom only played one match anyway, but yeah, odd comment to make about a team with Laxman, Dravid, Ganguly and Kumble.

 

[stephen]

I'd say recent RSA pace attacks were right up there as well: Steyn, Philander and Morkel. Mix in Rabada somewhere in there as well.

Steyn is my favourite bowler of all time and I rate Philander more highly than most. Their pace attack at its peak was one of the best ever. Always let down by their spinner and the fact that Morkel for the majority of his career was more Lee than Garner. Also it's always hard to know how to compare South African attacks to others due to the bowler friendliness of the majority of their pitches.

 

[Pratters]

I'm pretty sure almost all of them not only played again but had pretty extensive careers after that

Not really

 

[Pratters]

What I would like to know is how much of a say Rahane had in the squad. When he was to captain 3 tests, was he given a say at all? Usually a captain gets the players he wants nowadays. Will he be playing with Kohli's team for the important series? Wow what rubbish is this.

 

[morgieb]

They don't win without him as is the case with Smith

That's an exaggeration. Though I guess England did look on top in 97. But I think both series could've been won without McGrath (certainly 01 would've) and he didn't help in 2005.....

 

[Slifer]

Steyn is my favourite bowler of all time and I rate Philander more highly than most. Their pace attack at its peak was one of the best ever. Always let down by their spinner and the fact that Morkel for the majority of his career was more Lee than Garner. Also it's always hard to know how to compare South African attacks to others due to the bowler friendliness of the majority of their pitches.

Agreed that their attack may have benefited from home conditions but any three of Rabada, Steyn, Philander and Morkel are a match for any other bowling trio. And last time out in Oz, they absolutely slaughtered Australia (even without Steyn). And that's not even mentioning Abbott, Ngidi, Duane etc. RSA's batting is the pits atm but that aside, I'd be very interested in seeing these two attacks going at it.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah absolutely agree. I don't think Labuschagne is bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think his stats flatter him greatly and he'll revert to a more regular mean. Whether that's 50+ or mid 40s is yet to be seen.

Yeah agree with this. If he ends up a 3 with Boonie-level stats he will be an invaluable part of the side for a decade. If he goes 50+ it would be a huge bonus and Ponting-like, which would make him one of our best ever in that position.

Doing some work atm and have the full replay of yesterday on in the background. The preview of the day is hilarious with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[TheJediBrah]

That's an exaggeration. Though I guess England did look on top in 97. But I think both series could've been won without McGrath (certainly 01 would've) and he didn't help in 2005.....

Actually if anything 2005 proves his point more than the others. Aus won the first Test easily with McGrath, then he got injured and the rest is history. So not only was it not an exaggeration, it was the literal truth in that case.

 

[Victor Ian]

Cummins has played literally one series there and just like yesterday he deserves more wickets than he gets, mostly because Starc cleans up the tail after Cummins has taken the big wickets.

I honestly don't think there's much of a difference at all between Cummins and McGrath in tests.

You know warne, gillespie and lee cleaned up tails afyer mcgrath did his business too.

 

[Burgey]

and he didn't help in 2005.....

They lost the two tests he didn't play though.

 

[morgieb]

They lost the two tests he didn't play though.

Yeah that's true.

Don't get me wrong McGrath in England was brilliant. But I don't think he was notably better than Cummins was there.

 

[Slifer]

That's an exaggeration. Though I guess England did look on top in 97. But I think both series could've been won without McGrath (certainly 01 would've) and he didn't help in 2005.....

I don't have a dog in this fight but as a neutral, if McGrath is available for the entirety of the 05 Ashes, no way England wins. Plus Shane Warne was in destroyer mode. It's no coincidence England won the two tests McGrath missed.

 

[Slifer]

Come on guys, it's wayyyy too early to be comparing Cummins to the the cream of the crop like McGrath etc. He's not even toured Asia yet (ie extensively 4 tests isn't enough). My usual cut off is 200+ wickets and say around 50 tests or so. And preferably with a decent number of tests in unfamiliar/unfavorable conditions. Just my 0.02....

 

[Spark]

Come on guys, it's wayyyy too early to be comparing Cummins to the the cream of the crop like McGrath etc. He's not even toured Asia yet (ie extensively 4 tests isn't enough). My usual cut off is 200+ wickets and say around 50 tests or so. And preferably with a decent number of tests in unfamiliar/unfavorable conditions. Just my 0.02....

Cutoffs and analysis-by-checklist are universally arbitrary and not at all a good reason to avoid indulging in interesting comparisons when the actual, physical quality of the bowling on show merits the comparison. Regardless of anything else, the guy is bowling at an insanely high level and has done basically non-stop for three or four years now and that matters a lot more than the checklist.

 

[Pratters]

Cummins and McGrath are such different bowlers. Hazelwood is more like McGrath..

 

[stephen]

You know warne, gillespie and lee cleaned up tails afyer mcgrath did his business too.

That's true but Cummins always seems to end up with 4 wicket hauls.

 

[stephen]

Cummins and McGrath are such different bowlers. Hazelwood is more like McGrath..

Maybe physically but Cummins and McGrath have the same MO. Extract ridiculous bounce off a length, move the ball both ways on a 4th or 5th stump line, forcing the batsman to play and catching the edge after setting the batsman up and moving the ball half a bat width off the surface.

 

[Spark]

That's true but Cummins always seems to end up with 4 wicket hauls.

That's not entirely an accident tbh. He's significantly worse at bowling at the tail than the others, which is a real skill and not something that can be used as an excuse.